Private Club Radio Show
Welcome to the Private Club Radio Show, the industry's weekly source for education, news, trends, and other current developments in the world of private clubs.
Hosted by the talented entertainer and industry expert, Denny Corby,
the podcast offers a unique perspective on the private club industry, featuring expert guests, product spotlights, predictions, and more.
Whether you're involved in a golf club management, yacht clubs, athletic clubs, or business clubs, the Private Club Radio Show is the essential podcast for
anyone seeking valuable insights and information on the latest trends and developments in the private club industry.
Private Club Radio Show
411: Navigating Club HR Challenges w/ Katy Murray
I sat down with Katy Murray, a brilliant HR leader and problem-solver who’s redefining what it means to lead in private clubs.
She's currently at Army Navy Country Club and She's also the host of The Ginger Biz Podcast, make sure you check it out!
Katy’s journey from event planning to HR management is full of lessons on building strong teams, tackling challenges with creativity, and delivering seamless member experiences.
In this episode, we dive into:
- Why clear communication is the ultimate leadership tool.
- How Katy balances empathy with structure to solve tough problems.
- Creative solutions for staffing seasonal employees and managing busy seasons.
- Tips for building consistency and connection in clubs with or without HR departments.
Katy’s perspective will leave you inspired and equipped with actionable ideas to enhance your leadership and strengthen your team.
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Hey everybody, welcome to the Private Club Radio Show, where we give you the scoop on all things private golf and country clubs, from mastering, leadership and management, food and beverage excellence, member engagement secrets, board governance and everything in between, all while keeping it fun and light. Whether you're a club veteran just getting your feet wet or somewhere in the middle, you are in the right place. I'm your host, denny Corby. Welcome to the show. In this episode I am chatting with Katie Murray, who is a club professional, also a podcaster. She is human resources manager over at Army Navy Country Club. She's the host of her own podcast, the Ginger Biz podcast, and her and I dive deep into the world of HR and club operations. It's neat because we get to learn about her unique and kind of unconventional journey into the club space and into HR more specifically, and we talk about what it's like to manage a team of 600 plus employees navigating challenges and what it's like to keep a machine running, to keep a well-oiled machine going. So we touch on talking about systems and processes, managing J1, visa employees and a ton of laughs, stories and nuggets of wisdom all tossed throughout. So this is a fantastic episode. I'm super stoked for it.
Speaker 1:Before we get to it, big thanks to some of our show partners Kenneth's member vetting Concert, golf Partners and Golf Life Navigators, as well as myself, denny Corby at the Denny Corby Experience, from the hit show Penn Teller Fool Us and the Mike Huckabee Show to your club. I performed at hundreds of clubs all over the country. If you're interested in learning a little bit more, head over to dennycorbycom. And if you would like to learn how to put on killer events from the mind of a magician who has performed at hundreds of clubs, the club entertainment guide is coming out soon. If you want early access, it's only given to our news newsletter subscribers. Make sure you're subscribed. Head on over to privateclubradiocom. Enough about us. This is about you, the listeners, so let's get on with it. Private club radio. Let's welcome to the show, katie murray. How's? How's the club doing?
Speaker 2:great. Yeah, next month is like our official centennial, so we're the whole year has been celebrated, but then that's cool. Next month is the big, the big hoorah of it, so that'll be really fun you guys have anything fun planned? Yeah, they're doing. Since we have two locations, they have a whole celebration and party and it'll be a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:That's cool. Any like really cool part you're excited about.
Speaker 2:No, not specifically, but that's just because I'm more on the HR side. So I guess, it'll be good that everyone's busy and they won't necessarily need me as much.
Speaker 1:Now, how'd you get into the HR side of things? Because that's a unique position in place for clubs, because a lot of clubs don't even have I shouldn't say a lot, but like a decent amount don't have HR. So how did that even come about?
Speaker 2:Well, interestingly enough, I was like wanting to eventually be a GM. So I was like, well, I want to touch all aspects of the club, right? So I joined the current club as exec admin and then when the COVID happened, we furloughed our recruitment and retention manager and I kind of was absorbed by HR because of my role as exec admin, kind of liaisoning for the GM, and so I kept sitting in on everything. Then we ended up furloughing a ton of people and so I like did all the mail, merging and making sure all the data points were correct in the letters, and from there I just kept kind of getting absorbed by HR. And then when the HR manager left, my boss was like, can you at least do the interim?
Speaker 2:And at some point or another I was like, heck, no, I don't want to do HR. So he's like at least the interim. And then when the interim kind of came to an end and we were getting ready to like hire for it, I was like wait, why are we hiring? Am I not doing a good job? And he's like you didn't want it. I was like, no, I do. So three years later.
Speaker 1:I take that back yeah.
Speaker 2:So three years later I'm in HR and I love it and it's kind of funny, cause I do remember him saying like I thought you were very clear that you were just helping and I was like, yeah, but it's different now. It's mine now.
Speaker 1:And you've you've been in clubs for a while like a lot of your professional career, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think like 11 years now, just over a decade.
Speaker 1:Oh snap. So, where, where? How'd you get your start?
Speaker 2:Um, actually my husband and I lived in Oregon and wanted to try to something different, and so he applied for a couple of jobs um clear, on the East coast, and one of which was a country club in near DC. And so he applied. He got it. Our car broke down like right after we moved here and so he had to like call out of work really quickly as a director and was like so sorry, but like we just relocated and one of his members actually owned an auto mobile shop or a car shop or whatever and was like super helpful with us and I was like whoa, I want to get in on that, like I want to have like this second family who like cares about you, like what is that? And so I got a job as a host, just because I have my entrepreneurship, I have my own business, I do all that. And within a couple of months got promoted to supervisor and then on the managerial team and then just kept snowballing from there and never, never looked back.
Speaker 1:Oh snap, that's pretty cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love clubs.
Speaker 1:What are some of your daily duties and tasks as a human resource manager for for the club?
Speaker 2:One of them for us right now is we own an apartment building, and so property management is a big one, and making sure that everything's functioning over there. So that can be. I mean, there's no routine with it really and there's no cadence, because who knows when something might go awry or if they need something, but that's a big one. And then also just normal admin things like staying on workers comp or double checking, like unemployment sites, making sure that if someone's put a claim in, we have our response, things like that. But ultimately the biggest one is just dealing with the employees. They'll walk in and hey Katie, quick question about this.
Speaker 2:Or hey Katie, I've been meaning to talk to you, and it can be something as simple as I just want to update my 401k contribution, or it can be like my mom's like super sick. I need to go on FMLA. Whatever the case is, that's actually one thing I love about it, though, denny, is that every day is different. I thought that I'd get stuck and I did finance in a club for a while too and I thought that it'd kind of get mundane and boring, because you're just doing the same thing over but no human resources.
Speaker 2:It's like whatever jumps out at you that day is what you're dealing with.
Speaker 1:I can't imagine. So going back to the apartment, is that for the employees? Is that like your employment housing or is that like a totally just separate entity that you guys actually have like housing housing?
Speaker 2:No, it's for the employees. So right now we only house J1 visas in it, so interns and trainees from international places, because DC is kind of a rough spot to come and find housing. So we bought it actually at the start of this year, um, and so this is our first full year doing it, but just J1s get to live in there.
Speaker 1:How many? How many employees does the club have? How many J ones? And then, do you have any H2B ones?
Speaker 2:We don't have H2B ones right now, just because we prefer 12 monthers. So we do J ones. We have 18 or 19 J ones. I have, I think, 22 people in the building right now and then at max in the summer we hit 674, I believe, for employees. It was our biggest year yet. I think we hit like 450 the first year that I was in HR, and so we've yeah kind of I don't think I realized you guys were that big. Me neither. Wow, it just keeps growing.
Speaker 1:Wow, where is that split up into? Like, where is is a lot of those pockets of people at?
Speaker 2:I would say probably 120 or so are in aquatics. Probably 120 to 150 are in food and beverage. At our Fairfax location there's probably and I could be wrong about this like 90 to 100 over there. I know our accounting team is nine people, but that's only a small piece of the pie.
Speaker 1:They do a lot 0.01%.
Speaker 2:Well, that's how we break out. Like when we do an employee holiday party or something, we break it out based on how many people attended from departments and yeah, like HR is like five of us, admin is like nine of us. And yeah, like HR is like five of us, admins like nine of us. But yeah, it's pretty spread out and that's in the height of our season, right. So that was the busiest we got this summer was 674.
Speaker 1:That's still now, as you're coming off season, like what's your like average number, your like running number?
Speaker 2:I haven't actually checked recently, but I would say we probably drop about 200.
Speaker 1:So we're probably still hundreds or so. That's still a solid crew.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:From your point of view. What are some of the struggles or challenges with that many people?
Speaker 2:You know it's funny.
Speaker 2:You ask that because I've been like thinking about this a lot lately because we grew so quickly, so exponentially, that it's like what's the challenge?
Speaker 2:And one of the main ones is making sure that we're serving all demographics at the same time. We came from being like a smaller club to now we're like pretty big, especially in the mid-Atlantic region as well as on the East coast, and so I would say just making sure that everybody feels heard and seen and making sure, again, we have a team of in total, four of us against 600 employees. I want to make sure that I slow down and if, denny, you walk in my door, I know your name, I know details about you and keeping those front and center in my mind, but also not letting the craziness of my day I do still have that dual title of exec, admin and HR, that like if I have something from the GM in my mind, that I'm not letting that corrupt my interaction with you, denny, and being able to slow down and be like how's the dog, how's life, how's your? You know all those things. So that's kind of the biggest thing I think is just making sure that we serve all the voices.
Speaker 1:Do you, do you hire and fire Like? Is that under your umbrella also?
Speaker 2:Yes, managers can as well, but generally they go through me first and then I offered to do it with them if they don't want to do it.
Speaker 1:That's got to be difficult.
Speaker 2:For the podcast. Yeah, it's totally hard. It's really hard. I'm a very I'm higher military. I'm black and white, so if it's documented and we're good to go, I just step into that. Bye, Felicia hard, especially when it's something that you're like oh man, denny, you could have done better Like.
Speaker 2:why are you making me do this to you or whatever, but it's a lot, but that's part of the challenge, I think. I kind of not that I enjoy firing anybody by any means, but we do have standards to uphold and you know that clubs are, you know, crazy in the way that we want to serve our membership and we are ranked on the platinum clubs as a prestigious club and we want to make sure that we maintain that, and so sometimes we got to cut the bad apples.
Speaker 1:What are some tips that smaller clubs can take away that might not have a human resource manager or it's just, like you know, a super small team. They don't have this ability. That's a dumb, dumb question. I don't, or Maybe not. I guess I'm just trying to think of the clubs that don't have large staff and don't have an HR, you know, human resource manager, hr manager, people of that nature. What are some tips that you know, because you guys have a clear operation? So what are some things that a smaller club can learn from a bigger operation to help, you know, streamline their processes and their ways of doing things. Streamline their processes and their ways of doing things.
Speaker 2:You know, I think there's so much that even us can take away from bigger organizations as well, and I think, just having processes and systems because you never know when you're going to have an influx in hiring or when a pandemic is going to happen and you're going to have to be prepared to furlough or lay off and all of that and so I think, just taking automations and systems that are out there, we utilize ADP workforce now and we didn't, until I took over the department, start electronically onboarding people.
Speaker 2:They had to be with me in person and that was fine at the time, but it got to the point where, especially during the seasonal hiring, that'd be my entire work week If I'm sitting with each person getting them going and making sure they signed on the right line.
Speaker 2:So I would say it's never too early to start automations and systems and for us that means that we switched to doing all of our onboarding online. I can see a person in person to double check their eligibility and proof to work in the United States, but the rest of it they can do online and start the background check and start all the processes without me having to see them. So the manager likely will interview and get to know them and then make the offer and we can just keep the ball rolling. It also is so nice because then, even though if you start out small and you don't have a ton of them, you have a system in place If you do have to have a huge influx, or if you do grow or you do absorb or buy another club or something you know. And honestly it took from, like Denny, if I was hiring you, it took you two hours to sit with me and sometimes you have to phone a friend to make sure your taxes are filled out right.
Speaker 2:All that stuff to 26 minutes at home, Like you can, and some people get it done faster if they know what taxes they want to claim, and so it's saving me time, it's making your life easier, and you're like, hey, I want to work for an organization that's efficient.
Speaker 1:What are some platforms and softwares besides the ADP that you use, like and enjoy. That's helped streamline your process. It could be for the club it can also. I know you have your own entrepreneurial, you have your own stuff, but maybe just other things that you use that clubs might be able to take away and use for their own use also.
Speaker 2:Yeah, shrm is a huge resource if especially if you're smaller, cause you can pull from any templates they have or any. Basically, their data points and their database is awesome, so that's a big one. I don't tend to use it as much just because we do have some things established already. And then, as silly as it sounds, canva, because we make a lot of flyers for employees and so Canva is awesome for that and you can incorporate your branding and be true to your club as a whole while still serving to the employee side as well.
Speaker 2:And then I mean, I tend to just make templates within things, so I use Publisher for all of our SOPs and just have one template and build out from there. I'm very much about efficiency in my time and there are some AI programs that you can utilize. Now I will say, with the caveat that I don't use them to swift through applications or anything like that, but sometimes if I'm like, hey, I want everyone to the caveat that I don't use them to swift through applications or anything like that, but sometimes if I'm like, hey, I want everyone to get really excited for this code drive, I can use AI to help generate a paragraph about that which makes my brain not have to work quite as hard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'm sure you probably have the right inputs. You know how to do a proper prompt that's not going to make it look and sound like AI, like a lot of other people do the landscape of this coat drive.
Speaker 2:That's such a giveaway. The word landscape, but Landscape.
Speaker 1:That's funny, that's funny.
Speaker 2:Like in today's landscape, in private clubs we need landscape in private clubs we need.
Speaker 1:that's funny. How long have you been working with J ones for? Have you been? Did you have experience with them prior to army Navy club?
Speaker 2:I did not, so I've only been with J ones. Technically we've had them since. I've been around for two full years I think, but last about this time last year is when I really dove into and started learning about the legalities and the compliance and all the details with J1. So I guess pretty new, but I jumped in all the way so I've learned quite a bit.
Speaker 1:What are, what are some things that you've learned that process Because it has been even off podcast just chatting with other people it's been a topic that's just been coming up more and more. I did chat with one club that didn't have the best experience with it. In full transparency they were more of a Southern club and I don't think the membership, I don't think it was a good. I don't know if it was. You know there's always different sides to the story, but what have been some of your experience with J1s? What are some learnings, some takeaways, some I don't want to say goods and bads, but what are some maybe mistakes that you've made that you know for other clubs or just other. What's just been your experience with J1s and some things that other clubs can use to take away to maybe even start that process.
Speaker 2:Yeah, great question. I would say one of the bigger ones is kind of know what you're looking for and you're going to get what you give. So we've had them prior and our club, too, didn't necessarily have the best experience. But I think one thing with that is knowing who the sole point of contact is. So right now I have all the different managers obviously managing front of the house, back of the house. The J ones are with them day in and day out, but I still have my hand in it and I know what's going on. I don't expect my managers to know that J ones can't get a second job with the current sponsor company that we utilize Because, honestly, one of the managers came to me and told me that someone got a second job but that jeopardizes their J-1 visa. So learning those things and being able to kind of keep my team or our team in the managers accountable to that is hugely helpful.
Speaker 2:And then also setting clear expectations for the J-1s. I'll say when we moved them into our units it was awesome and great and we furnished them and everything. So it's not like they're coming into just like an empty apartment, but then the needs that they had were so over the top. Sometimes they'd be like, oh, this light bulb burned out or, oh, I need soap, and I was like, well, it's clear in your paperwork that you have to bring your own toiletries and do your own things. And so just really governing them to an extent and creating those clear expectations and reminding them of those.
Speaker 2:And then the other element I would say, which I've seen from the sponsor companies we work with three or four different companies that give us the J-1s is also saying that they're here for training because that's their end game. The goal of a J-1 visa is that they come to the States, they get immersed in our culture, they get to learn everything that we can teach them and then they take it home to their country and really emphasizing that from the interview process to the time that they're here, every moment, talking about training versus working. Because, again, one of the lead things that you see for J1s getting, you know, nixed on coming over is they end up saying something like, oh, I'm going there to work or the work I'm going to do, and sometimes the consulate is like, no, that doesn't work for us because you're supposed to be training, and so just emphasizing the word training in every communication I think is huge.
Speaker 1:Do they tend to be younger?
Speaker 2:communication, I think is huge. Do they tend to be younger? Yeah, rj ones are all generally students or just graduated, because they probably studied like hospitality or they were in a program in one of the hotels in their home country.
Speaker 2:And so they come over at that younger sort of age. Now, j ones, though I will say for HR purposes, are wild, because you get to know where they come from, you get to pick which countries you want to scout at, you get to pick, like their age groups and all those things. And in normal America, denny, I can't ask how old you are in an interview. So it's so funny the difference there that like that's a big ticker and people think, oh, do you prefer like younger ones or older? Do you prefer this country over that country? And I was like I just want people that are workers, like people who want to come and train and learn is all I need.
Speaker 1:What are some red flag hires or what are some red flags for when hiring not just maybe you're, you know, working with J ones, but just bringing in anybody to to to a club space? Are there any red flags that you've found, or any like consistent things, or what's the word I'm looking for?
Speaker 2:Oh, that's a tough one. I'm sure there's something in my old noggin that could like figure that out, but generally, no, I'm very much a hire for like the personality versus the skill.
Speaker 2:So, for me it's just like personality things. I think the biggest factor if I were to like not speak from me specifically, but telling others is making sure you're mindful that they'll jive with the team, Cause I will sometimes see managers bring somebody in who's like the perfect fit on paper and they have the experience and the years worked and like the skillset and all of those things, but they just don't jive with our team and you know this. Each club is like its own unique village that we all have different personalities, Like I can, you know, articulate that in so many different ways. But that's the biggest one is being like, hey, let's make this person fit because they're perfect for this job. Or like even in HR.
Speaker 2:Like take, for example, if, if my position were open, you could get somebody who's crazy great on paper, who knows all about corporate or healthcare all the HRs but they know nothing about clubs, so then they're just on a fit. That's the biggest red flag I would have from a manager standpoint. From a candidate standpoint, I don't know that I could pick just one thing, because it depends. Like, if you're quirky and fun, that might work really well in one of our restaurants because you're going to engage with the member and you're going to get along with them great and have stories, maybe as a bartender or something, Whereas if you're super serious, that might work really good in our membership role, because we need you to be focused and serious and professional, because you're dealing with large sums of money when people decide to become a member.
Speaker 1:So in that element I don't know that there's any one hard and fast red flag, which then also for the right club, you might want that quirky membership person because that's the vibiness of the club a little bit. All right so. So let's just say someone doesn't have an HR but they have to do those HR responsibilities, everything that's involved. What are some skills tidbit, what are some things that those people should maybe lean more into, learn a little bit more about or try to get stronger and to kind of help them with that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, denny, I think this is a huge one. I've had the opportunity to go talk at, like different universities and whatnot, and one of the things I asked the students is I'm like who here's ever worked in HR? And like nobody raises their hand. And I'm like who's ever gotten a job? And they all raise their hands. I'm like, then, all of you have done an element of HR right, whether it's completing your I-9, doing your documents, like for your W-2 or whatever the case is.
Speaker 2:And so I think a lot of people tend to lean on oh, we don't have HR, oh, hr handles that. But every single person in every single organization is doing HR. And so I would say the number one biggest thing when you're in a club is making sure you're documenting things, whether you have a strong HR or not, or you don't have an HR at all. Documentation is so huge and we've even implemented a very simple form. It's a one pager. That it's before anything happens, before there's any concerns, it's just on our radar. So, denny, if you were to walk into my office and be like hey, so-and-so was rude to me, I just don't feel comfortable with it, but I haven't decided what I want to do with it.
Speaker 2:My team jots that down and we gave that same form to every single manager. They don't have to turn it in. It's not a formal document that Denny complained or Denny this, or Denny that. It's so that in two weeks when you come back and say, hey, remember when I came a couple of weeks ago Number one, we're big enough. I don't always remember, so there's that element.
Speaker 2:But number two, then we can say, yeah, we jotted it down, that you didn't want to do anything at the time. Has something happened? Has something changed? And then we just kind of have a little bit of a paper trail. And we gave that to the managers because I know they're on the floor, I know they're crazy busy, I know that they have tons of conversations with every single employee every single day, because that's just the element of hospitality and so just documenting small things before they become big, so you can proactively handle them. And then also, I would say just being mindful of different rules and regulations, and they can be super simple, like what not to ask during an interview. Maybe your HR if you have HR assumes you know that you shouldn't ask how old someone is or if they're pregnant or all of these things that you're not allowed to ask, but you might not know that, so it's always good to just refresh on some of those skills that you'll take with you wherever you go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's probably one of those things now where something that might seem small, but in today's landscape and climate it's, I don't want to say, people are more sue, happy, but it's just covering your ass. We don't need people touching our asses. No, that was an office reference, but no, it's one of those. And now, with all these TikToks and social media things and people who know how to hack the system, might be the wrong thing to say there, but now, with information so easily accessible, spreadable and it's probably more important now than almost ever Um, how, how do you track and how do you track those documents Like, so, like, when things like that happen? Is that through? Like it's ADP have a thing in there? Like, how, how do you, as an HR manager, how do you track those little things Like, is it like a file? Is it like a physical file? Is it an online file? Is it a Google doc? Is it a drive? How do you track all of that stuff? And how do you easily go back to be like oh, yeah, let me find that.
Speaker 2:Great question, and this specific one is kind of new to us because I just wanted something that captured those smaller interactions that might amount to something down the road. So right now we just keep that form in our office, or the manager can keep it, and then they utilize it to communicate with our department if they need to invoke the next level. So right now it's all just on paper in a file, but for, like, write-ups or disciplinary or policies, those are all filed in ADP in their employee file. These don't necessarily touch that, because this is more just a streamlined way to communicate and support managers. But you're totally right too.
Speaker 2:Like I've seen and I've even had people send me TikToks of like someone getting fired or someone being mistreated and there's this whole negative motion like thing around HR right now and I'm like the chillest person ever, come talk to me. And if you're being stupid and it's not worth having the conversation, I'll be like yo, denny, let's talk this out. Ever, come talk to me. And if you're being stupid and it's not worth having the conversation, I'll be like yo, denny, let's talk this out. Or if I'm like, okay, denny, that's actually really important, thank you for telling me, but I don't know, I feel like our HR is super down to earth and I'll see things online of people like HR is against you, or if HR is in the room, it's not good and I'm like no, I'm here because our managers are exceptional leaders but don't necessarily know how to navigate certain conversations, so I'm an extension of them not coming in to be a meanie.
Speaker 2:And it's just funny what the world is telling us, or like things they're planting in our minds.
Speaker 1:Hope you all enjoyed that. I know I did Just a reminder. If you would like early access to the Club Entertainment Guide, shoot me an email subject line entertainmentguide2helloatprivateclubradiocom. If you are enjoying the episode, give it a rating and a review. Cost nothing means the world and helps the channel tremendously. When you help the channel, you're helping me. When you're helping me, you are helping my dogs have a better life. I'm your host, denny Corby. That's this episode. Until next time. Catch you on the flippity flip.
