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Private Club Radio Show
419: Elevating Golf & Agronomy Careers w/ Tyler Bloom
The episode features Tyler Bloom, from Bloom Consulting Partners, a leader in golf course management and consulting, discussing how he is reshaping workforce development in private golf clubs. With a focus on mentorship and youth apprenticeship programs, he highlights innovative strategies to attract and retain talent in the industry.
• Tyler’s journey from golf course maintenance to consulting
• Importance of workforce development in clubs
• Innovative youth apprenticeship programs as a solution
• Critical role of mentorship in agronomy careers
• Addressing misconceptions about careers in golf
• Future trends in golf workforce dynamics and skills required
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Hey everybody, welcome to the Private Club Radio Show, where we give you the scoop on all things private golf and country clubs From mastering, leadership and management, food and beverage excellence, member engagement secrets, board governance and everything in between, all while keeping it fun and light. Whether you're a club veteran just getting your feet wet or somewhere in the middle, you are in the right place. I'm your host, denny Corby. Welcome to the show. In this episode I am chatting with Tyler Bloom from Bloom Golf Partners and we're talking about how he turned a career in golf course maintenance into a thriving business that is reshaping the private club workforce.
Speaker 1:Tyler and I met not too too long ago and it turns out we live very close to each other. He went to school with my wife and her sister man. The world is so small and just continues to get smaller the more I travel and network and meet new people, and who would have thought that private golf and country clubs would have brought us a little bit closer? But this is just a fantastic episode and we talk about his story, how he got started in golf and in agronomy and how his love for the golf industry turned into a passion for workforce development, where he is helping clubs find, retain and attract top tier talent in agronomy. We touch on some creative solutions, youth apprenticeship programs that are game changers for staffing. We talk about what clubs are doing right and wrong when it comes to the talent acquisition and how Tyler balances, you know, niche expertise and experiences with big picture thinking to really bring clubs closer together and to help them thrive.
Speaker 1:And he is also the host of his own podcast, leadership on the Links, which I highly recommend and want you to check out. Just search Leadership on the Links wherever you consume your podcasts. Before we get to the podcast, I want to give a big shout out, big thanks to some of our show partners Concert Golf Partners, kenneth's Member, vetting and Golf Life Navigators, as well as myself. The Denny Corby Experience there's excitement, there's mystery, vetting and golf life navigators, as well as myself. The Denny Corby experience. There's excitement, there's mystery. Also there's magic, mind reading, comedy, crowd work, banter. It is so much fun. One of the most fun member event nights your club will have guaranteed. If you want to learn more, head on over to dennycorbycom.
Speaker 2:But right now, private club radio listeners, let's welcome to the show my friend in soon to be yours, tyler bloom, and then we're going to Miami next Wednesday for the orange bowl and, who knows, maybe maybe go into Atlanta for the national championship.
Speaker 1:Oh snap, You're yours. Hitting, hitting everything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, well, you only live once right. Yeah, yeah, well, you only live once right, that's true, that's true. And and if you're a Penn State fan, you know this only comes around once every. You know, 30 years, so yeah, I.
Speaker 1:I don't follow college football, so I've yeah, we're nuts.
Speaker 2:We're nuts about college oh, I know, oh, I know our uh, our mutual friend, tom Wallace and I have been uh, going back and forth like like texting about, you know, buckeyes, penn State, and I said to him last I texted him last night I said, dude, if both teams win, we're going to Atlanta and we're going to sit, we're getting tickets and we're going together.
Speaker 1:You guys should have like face paint, go like be like the polar opposites and just like have like a fake battle to try, try to get like, oh my God, you guys should do like a fake fight, go like you know viral. Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, we'll have you know it'll be the KKW Ohio.
Speaker 1:State brand versus the Penn State TB brand.
Speaker 2:What was your background when I was, when I was 15, I first started working at our local private club, berwick Golf Club, and I was hired. I first started working at our local private club, burwick golf club, and I was hired in the in the bag room, you know, with the pro shop. I didn't even make it a day and the golf golf professional said I don't think this is the right spot for you.
Speaker 1:I think you should go down to the maintenance building Now. Was it because you talk too much or was like what was the like? Were you like, like, like what gets you kicked out of there?
Speaker 2:Well, I, I, I don't know. It was the biggest mistake they ever made, I guess. But I'm not, I'm not quite sure. I'm looking back and just thinking I didn't fit the culture, the team. I don't know. I mean the first day. I mean I showed up. It's not like I didn't show up, so I don't know. I mean the first day. I mean I showed up, you know, it's not like I didn't show up, so I don't know. It's it's a mystery that someday, you know, I'll have to figure out what it was. It's ironic that now you know I'm a, you know it's a small private club, it's nothing. As you know Northeast PA, it's nothing. We're not paying a hundred thousand dollar initiation fees or anything. But it's funny, it's full circle, because now I play there, I'm a member. It's just such a cool thing to have those nostalgic moments of like man. This is where my career started.
Speaker 2:I'm still in the golf industry in a totally different capacity. I came up through the golf course superintendent ranks. I was fortunate. I went to Penn State, got a four-year degree in turfgrass science, which is still interesting. Most of my friends outside of the industry are blown away that you can go to a college to learn how to grow grass for a living. And then was blessed. You know, the Penn State network is kind of a saying is that the sun never sets on a Penn State graduate. You know, turfgrass graduate because we're all over the world and you know the networking that you get and exposure at that stage in my career really influenced me. I was fortunate.
Speaker 2:Um, my first internship was at Marion golf club, uh, 2006. And it was, uh, I mean a shell shot going from Burwick golf club, you know rural Pennsylvania, to the bright lights of the top five club in the country and it was such a cool experience and I really enjoyed the camaraderie and the people that were involved there and just kind of, you know, worked my out my way through that sort of network of superintendents. Was that Southern Hills for for an internship when Tiger Woods won the PGA championship, so that was. That was pretty cool. And then was that Mirafield Village the following year.
Speaker 1:So you were there. How close were you to proximity? Tell me about that. That energy must have been electric.
Speaker 2:Well, outside of a whiteout at Penn State, I don't think you could get anything closer to just the intensity that people had and the excitement around Tiger Woods. I mean, especially as somebody who grew up Sundays watching Tiger win tournaments and this is the person you sort of idolize as a sports hero. And yeah, how close was I. I mean I got a picture taken with him after he won the championship, so it was pretty special. I mean I got a picture taken with him after he won the championship.
Speaker 1:So it was pretty, pretty special. Oh snap, were you in viewing distance, watching it happen live, Like where were you on the course?
Speaker 2:So it was fascinating and I remember this, he was only like a stroke or two above the second place. And so as he teed off the 18th, we had already been kind of instructed hey, there's a chance that there's going to be a three-hole playoff here, so we need to go and prep those holes 16, 17, and then kind of follow in behind as they complete 18. Make sure the bunkers are raked, make sure they're clean, make sure there's no obstructions on the complete 18,. You know, make sure the bunkers are raked, make sure they're clean, make sure you know there's no obstructions on the teas, fairways, greens. You know, make sure everything's clean.
Speaker 2:And so I was at the 17th hole. He had he'd already teed off, he was going up to the, he was on his fairway second shot and basically, you know, his next shot landed on the green. So it's like Tiger Woods is a four-putton on the 18th green at that time to lose a major championship. So I was sprinting when I had the athletic prowess years ago to be able to sprint from the 17th all the way up to the 18th to watch him drop and win the championship.
Speaker 2:So it was just a lot of adrenaline and, listen, we were putting some pretty crazy hours in, I mean, and it was a hot summer in Oklahoma. I mean we had record breaking heat, a hundred degrees that week and we were working a hundred 120 hours. I mean sun up, sun down, beyond you know when the sun was down to kind of prep for the tournament. So you know, when you're around that environment you know it's kind of crazy to think back like man, I can't believe we worked 120 hours in a week. But the adrenaline and excitement of putting together a product for the world's best golfers is, you know, if you really love golf which that's, that's how I got into the history, because I just love golf um, I'm sort of a golf freak, a nerd, but um, that stuff doesn't really bother you too much because it's all adrenaline.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that is that is cool. And then what got you to Tyler Bloom Consulting? What? What was that progression and trajectory?
Speaker 2:Well it's. It's interesting I I always gravitated when I was kind of coming up through the ranks. I was surrounded by great people and great leaders, great teammates who are now accomplished executives, superintendents, club managers, golf professionals, you know throughout the country and really over in the world of golf, and I just always appreciated the idea of team development, different personalities that I was exposed to and around, was heavily involved in a lot of our internship programs and developing them. Coming up through and when I was a superintendent, probably like most of your viewers, grappled with struggles of the workforce and trying to recruit, retain, develop mid-managers, seasonal help, and I had a guidance counselor come to my office this is probably back 2015, 2016 to talk to me about a youth apprenticeship program and I was just fascinated with the idea that, hey, similar to my background at places like Oakmont, muirfield, you know, marion where I was an intern, there's a program for maybe people who aren't exposed to the club industry or golf industry, but this is a way to kind of get them in into the industry and develop them, and so over the course of three, four years, I just really got passionate around the idea of mentorship and developing kind of from within and getting people exposed to the golf industry. Cause what I see in the golf industry and what I know about it you know it's created a lifestyle for me and friendships that you know and memories that probably not a lot of people have been exposed to in their life. And so I looked at that as an opportunity to develop and mentor people. And I started getting calls from clubs you know locally in the Baltimore region as it relates to how are we recruiting and developing and building this sort of apprenticeship internship model.
Speaker 2:And the light bulb went off my head. I had an agronomic consultant come in with me to tour the golf course and he had said to me have you ever thought of starting a recruiting agency? And I said you know, not really. And he says, well, I think you should do some research. And I was familiar with some of the normal traditional executive search firms Copland and Keebler Dennehy Group, familiar with the kind of work that they did as a candidate and just an industry professional. And so I thought, well, I'm not sure I necessarily want to create a business that's competing or an executive search firm, but I'm interested in helping this. And honestly, it just was a leap of faith. Certain things kind of lined up.
Speaker 2:The pandemic made me kind of take the leap, because my wife lost her job, we had our second kid coming in Sienna, and it was like if there's ever a time to make a change in our careers and kind of reset our trajectory, now's the time. And I'm an entrepreneurial guy. I've always kind of had that sort of spirit about me and I just started seeing things that other people were doing outside of their, outside of the industry that I was like, why can't I do that? So I jumped into it in June 2020. And what started as really kind of an idea around workforce development and getting people into the industry, you know, fast track.
Speaker 2:Four years later, we're doing executive search, we're doing organizational consulting, we're doing business consulting, we're doing marketing, and it's evolved in such an organic way that I never, ever dreamed of, but sometimes being first in your space. You know, specifically on the agronomy side, it's not really well known that there's talent acquisition, recruitment services for it. It just kind of was hitting the market at the right time, when the pain was the highest, you know, especially during COVID. So that's probably the simplest way of how it came to be, simplest way of how how it came, came, came to be. But it certainly has come from, uh, working with great people and surrounding myself with great people, like I've kind of feel, like I've done throughout my entire career.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, what's what? So I just love it, cause it's so niche. It's just like a niche thing. Like it, craig, I, and I love it. I love it. Um, who like? So? Who would you say like who's like your target club, like what's like your, and it's probably going to say it's it's changes a little bit, but like who's like your target club? Or who do you see yourself working with the most? And like who are you helping? Like what's? What do you think is the?
Speaker 2:well, it's interesting. So one of my mentors is a guy by the name of Rory Vaden and his consulting group. It's called Brand Builders Group. They have a saying called serve the person you once were. And when you think about targeting your primary client, like, who's our audience? It's golf course superintendents and it's people that are. That's one piece is. It's people who are fanatics about golf and want to have great golf conditions, great golfer experiences. So that opens up the floodgates to a variety of different people beyond just clubs. That's also service providers who want to support the game of golf and support golf course superintendents. That's people that are startup owners of building and owners that that have golf courses Right. So it's it's kind of interesting how I'm not sure I'd put it into one box, but to me those two criteria is like number one we serve the golf course superintendents profession and trying to grow um awareness around what golf course superintendents do and and the careers of superintendents. And then also you, you know the people that really are fanatics about golf course, golf courses conditioning and golfer experiences. So that those are kind of two key criteria for us.
Speaker 2:Um, I don't know if we would, we'd sit. I mean, we primarily work with private clubs, yeah, but, um, you know, it seems it's, it's kind of morphed, it's not just I wouldn't say that we just settle into the private club world. I mean, we just got to. We just picked up a couple searches with with a technology company that serves golf course superintendents, Right. So there's sometimes these offshoot, uh sort of opportunities that come by. A few years ago, actually, when I started, uh, never, ever, ever thought this would happen. I. I got a call from central park conservancy up in central in new york, yeah, and they were looking for a turf manager, uh, for the grounds at central park and so we recruited in that project and that opened up a whole different sector, you know, businesses and parks and recreation that I never, you know, never, ever would have thought of, that's talk.
Speaker 1:to talk about even getting nichier, that's a, that's bonkers. Do you have any like tips for people getting into the agronomy space?
Speaker 2:Well, it's interesting, like I think, um most people that I have interacted with beyond just the agronomy side have kind of fell into it. It wasn't like they, it wasn't like they were 15 years old and said I love grass.
Speaker 2:I love grass and I want to go to Penn state, I want to go to Rutgers, I want to go to, you know, a major university to study grass. It comes from people that have been around sports and athletics typically and they did this as a summer job just to kind of pay the bills or get a free membership at their golf course because that's what they wanted to be around, and then realize that maybe the office space and the corporate world wasn't really for them and so this is kind of the arena that they enjoy doing. It becomes more of a passion than it is about financials. I mean, everybody needs to get paid and compensation is important, but I just find that most people that really gravitate to the agronomy side are extremely passionate about being around the game of golf and kind of seeing nature's work and being outside with their hands.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so what? What do you see as people looking to? You know, maybe get some of these really great agronomy positions. What are, what are the steps to doing that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I can look back at my career. It really starts foundationally with, with, with good education in some capacity, whether that's a certificate, whether it's a two-year degree or four-year degree. We've definitely seen a change in the requirements for the education piece, especially at the assistant manager level and kind of your entrance point into the club or golf industry.
Speaker 1:Dumb question. Sorry, do me an interrupt, but like so. Is formal education a necessity or could a lot of it be like hands-on, like, is it the type of? Is it like doctoral I don't know if that's the proper way to phrase it, but is it like doctor stat, like you have to like do it there, or like, can this be like learned more hands-on, or is it like a mixture of both and like, what is the difference between, like a certificate, a two year and a four year? And you know, does somebody who's been hands-on, you know for years, can they out, surpass the four year person?
Speaker 2:It's like the biggest paradox because you have you have some people that are on one side of the fence and others that are on the other. So, like I see probably things that more of a global version in in my professional opinion, some level of education to me and I think it's probably industry credo is that it shows a level of commitment to advancing yourself professionally, personally, and you've made a discerning the performance of that turf and that grass that have no formal education and have a very tradesy type background, hands on, yeah. So I think I think it just depends on. I think it just depends on the current employer and what they need specifically. And sometimes that two year, four year degree is not necessarily a driving factor when you just need somebody that has an eye for detail, has a work ethic, to be able to be up at 5 am, sometimes being there till 5, 6 pm, and just and just has that sort of green thumb about them. But I think, if I'm looking as an industry best practice and best trends, I think yeah, when you look at senior management roles and if your goal is to climb the career ladder to earn more money, then I definitely think there needs to be some coincided or cohesiveness with education, difference between a certificate versus an associate.
Speaker 2:It's interesting we find a lot of job seekers that may have an associate's or bachelor's in business sports management, that love the golf industry but don't really want to put the time into a four-year degree or two-year degree, and so they may do some online certificate training. Penn State offers, you know, 15 credit basic certificate program. Rutgers has a fast track to your winter school program, right. So a lot of times you'll see candidates that want to climb the ladder go through those sort of programs and listen.
Speaker 2:For me personally, it's all about the mentorship. If you work for a great mentor and a recognized superintendent, that's going to carry more weight than looking if you have a two-year, four-year degree. So I've noticed somebody that can develop a team knows how to grow grass throughout the year. One of my dear friends says if you can grow grass on pavement, you won't get fired by any club. I'm not sure I entirely agree with that, because I do think there's some diplomacy, political skills, leadership, communication skills that are required. But yeah, if you can grow grass on pavement, you're going to be pretty successful in this industry. That's funny. That's really funny.
Speaker 2:That's really fun, so steps, yeah, I mean you asked like specifically what steps number one like you you've got to. You've got to really kind of align yourself with the right network of superintendents, be no different than a chef or a golf pro. You've got to work for somebody that has a history of developing and mentoring people. My perspective is it doesn't necessarily have to be a top 100 level club. It can be a really great local club in your area that has a network of people and support group that can help somebody kind of move on from going from level one to level two, level three. That to me, is pretty paramount.
Speaker 2:Success also to me in terms of moving up the career ladder is, you know, like anything else, this is a challenging industry when it comes to hours, commitment and you've got to be extremely dedicated. This is not an industry I don't care what discipline or sector you're in that a 40-hour workweek is going to land you into the promised land of higher salary, higher responsibilities. That's just not the nature of this job and it's getting more and more demanding. So you have to have a clear passion for this line of work or it'll get to you. You know, in summer times you're in the heat, you're outside sweating. You might not have all the resources or support systems to produce great conditions, and what kind of gets people through that is their, their passion for what they do.
Speaker 1:What positions do you hire for and what are the positions that a club would hire for? So, like you know, so I I'm. I'm coming from the perspective of, like you know, I don't really know the agronomy side. I don't know all the positions there too. So I'm coming from a point of you know, being like you know, because I am, but like, so, like, what are the positions of the agronomy scale?
Speaker 2:yeah, so so typically like, let's start at the at the head position director of agronomy or golf course superintendent, and then your next level down would be your senior assistant.
Speaker 2:I I kind of have gone back to more of a hierarchy, um, traditional hierarchy, because it's clear, people know where they stand, versus some people tried to elevate roles that were they're calling them assistant superintendents when they're an intern or they're calling them a core superintendent when they're really like a senior assistant.
Speaker 2:So I think senior assistant, second assistant assistant in training, right, senior assistant, second assistant assistant in training, right, and then I think you're looking at sort of like an intern, apprentice, maybe a crew foreman level, and then your your typical, you know, groundskeepers Now there's some clubs that have specialties and irrigation technician, a spray technician, you know I've I've seen everything from like a wildlife habitat Audubon, like environmental technician type position, you know. But but the core, the core is really that superintendent, senior assistant, yeah, um, and then an equipment manager. You know sometimes people forget that. You know there are really well, highly qualified specialized equipment technicians that are maintaining four or five million dollar fleets, if not more, um, of specialized equipment. So it's, it's fascinating that you know most people don't think about on the agronomy side, like all those different pathways do you like grass?
Speaker 1:do you like golf? Do you like fixing things? Do we have the job for you? Do you like expensive equipment?
Speaker 2:well and what's. And so it's interesting, as we think about the evolution of the workforce and, let's say, the career trajectory, with the shortage in talent in technology pieces, because most clubs now operate under data and they want more precision based decision making. And so I think, as you look at the skills moving forward to be successful, I do thinking having some of that technology support, data driven innovation kind of skill sets, I think is going to be a pretty important piece, you know, in the job market moving forward.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what are? What are some like salary ranges for those positions?
Speaker 2:Well, and I'm, and I'm sure, that that's across the board.
Speaker 1:I'm sure that you know and, and you know you can say loosely, you know, whatever. But cause, I'm sure that you know, uh, and, and you know you can say loosely, you know whatever. But I'm sure every club, every state, every county, every place is different.
Speaker 2:But yeah, you know it's interesting. We just did a national study that'll be released here in a couple, in a couple weeks, and 77 of working americans don't know that. You can make over a hundred thousand dollars in the agronomy sector and and that's become, from my observation, a pretty consistent standard at the senior management not just the superintendent but the senior assistant role that it's not uncommon now that somebody could be making $100,000 as an assistant with a two-year, four-year degree, and we've seen that range of director positions anywhere all the way up to. I've filled a position that paid over $600,000. So it's pretty crazy.
Speaker 2:The way the world is working right now, specifically in this industry, is compensation. But traditionally, I think when you look at an assistant role, somebody coming out of college, they're probably making somewhere between 60, 70,000. In some locations of the country 75 plus housing. You know you're seeing a lot of that being offered at a lot of Metro markets, whether it's New York, la, west Palm beach. It's almost it's crazy to think, but it's almost like a necessity or requirement for employment now to offer housing.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, mechanics, I mean 100,000. I mean I personally wouldn't take on an equipment manager search if it was paying anything less than 90,000, because I just think for that level of skilled position that's what you're going to pay in another industry for a qualified mechanic.
Speaker 1:Well, and if you're managing a fleet, even if it's a million dollar fleet, I feel like paying 10% is not crazy to keep it maintained.
Speaker 2:You would think that, but I think probably similar to the other sectors is that there has been a big awareness around paying people for what they're worth, because you're going to lose them to other industries if you don't.
Speaker 1:You have the board members. Well, I fixed my John Deere by myself. Well, I ain't going to fit in to pay this hooligan. I don't know why I gave him that accent.
Speaker 2:It's true, though. It's true, though that's, you know, again, that's. That's sometimes part of the um, that's part of the bias and challenges I think this industry has is that you have people that you know. We'll say things like well, my yard at home doesn't look like this, you know, why are we Brown here and we're spending all this money? Why? Why is our golf course, you know, looking like this? Because you've got these armchair agronomists that think that they know better than their superintendent, who's professionally trained, educated, um, you know. So that's a challenge in the in the agronomy side.
Speaker 2:I think there's also the public perception of the Bill Murray caddy shack. You know is is what people think of when they think. For a long time thought of golf course super intent to sort of be in this rag tag, unprofessional, unkept person, and now you've got these people that are managing 20, 30, 100 million dollar projects along with that asset on their golf course, you know. So those skill sets and professionalism within the position has really elevated and I think it's really been brought out through COVID with the awareness around golf and how much impact and people are using golf courses and, you know, view the sport and view the and view this as not just. I just think there's a more elevated perspective of the golf industry and what golf course superintendents do. There's more respect than I think when I came up in the industry. There's more awareness around it as being a profession than just, you know, an average job down the street that any Joe Schmo could cut the grass.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when you're looking at the higher levels the assistant, the, you know, director, the, the, the assistant, the director, the main, super what are you say? Is there like a couple or maybe one, two, three qualities that like the top candidates, the top people who get the positions like that they have? Is there a common theme, a common thread?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, we talked about passion being certainly. One of those things I think you're seeing more of a morph into I kind of call it like a strategic partner is that they're looking at the golf course as a central business asset or unit within the overall context of a club. So I think having that sort of business acumen- is really important.
Speaker 1:And by that are you meaning like they're kind of coming ready and expecting or willing to put in a plan going, okay, here's where it's at, here's where it's going to be. We're going to have to you know, we already have X amount of deferred maintenance like looking at stuff. Do you mean like looking at it from that point of view and being like, okay, here's where we're at.
Speaker 2:Here's what we need, not just like, okay, we're going to be good for another year, okay, yeah, there's, there's much more of a analytical view, you know, with tracking, performance of green speeds, firmness, moisture, water conservation, right, and so having a person that takes that sort of ownership, you know, like it's theirs, as, I think, a really critical skill I think. I think you see, you've seen as, as you see with talking with other people in this industry, clubs are changing rapidly in terms of member expectations. So having somebody that has a global perspective, that they're part of a team, you know, within the club, I think, is obviously an attractive trait that every general manager, every club president, every every board's looking for you and their next leader in the agronomy area man, they've got to be observational. I hinted on that earlier is that you have to know your property like it's your own kid. You know, I always used to joke like I had 18 kids and I knew at different points of the year what they needed, why they needed it, what their pain points were, and you have to nurture and care for that and that requires a significant amount of dedication, and you've also got to be able to inspire people to have that same passion and attention to detail within your team and I think most clubs and committees we've worked with on superintendent searches.
Speaker 2:The issues are never really this catastrophic turf loss. Right, it's not because greens are dead, it's not because of agronomic related issues, it's typically low hanging fruit. T markers aren't set properly, pin positions aren't set properly. You know there's trash on the golf course. The fine details on the peripherals of the golf course are unkept. It's those things that the average golfer drives by every day and gets annoyed with. That, really, I think, separates the good from great superintenses and the teams that have that sort of high attention to detail.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I get that 100. That's it's. It's fascinating. I mean I, when I first started doing superintendent searches, um, I was waiting for this like big aha moment, when you go tour a golf course with the committee to say, oh man, you know, number five, green is, is is in pretty rough shape. That's why they made the decision. And you kind of go through the, through this, got these golf course tours with the committees and I like to do that because I think it's important to really kind of listen and observe what they're, what they're observing as their pain points, so you can kind of delineate what's going to be important in the skills and experiences that next person has. And again, the majority of what I see, um, isn't this overwhelming one or two big things, it's all the little details that just like nick at people every single day yeah, huh.
Speaker 1:And then do you have like a third thing oh sorry oh no, no, no, it was good, it was my, my, my like brain. You said one, two. I was like oh, let's, let's get, like, let's squeeze one more, squeeze one more um, I mean they've got to have with all.
Speaker 2:We just kind of led into that but they got to have a pretty high iq on golf, meaning they need to understand how golf course maintenance synergizes with day-to-day member experiences and how those two pieces play into each other. So somebody that understands the game of golf, understands course setup, understands what their members specifically are looking for. You know, sometimes you can go into places that say they want to have us open type conditions on a on a beer budget and that's not realistic, you know. So somebody that's practical, pragmatic about how they're going to game plan and how they're going to enforce day-to-day standards, that coincides with what that membership um skillset is.
Speaker 2:You know there are some facilities that you may have majority of membership as single digit handicaps, but I would say 95% of the country that's not the case. Most, most clubs have a average membership uh gen of maybe 15 to 15 to 20 and you can you could really turn people off if the golf course is presented day-to-day too firm, too fast, um, too difficult for your average player. You know you've got to continue to encourage people to get into the game. So a superintendent has to be cognizant of of what their work does to the enjoyment of golf for your average player as well as that low handicapper.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it goes back to what we were saying too. It's understanding the role, the goal of everything. And what are they talking about in the boardroom? It's like the same thing, understanding what's being said, taking that all in, like what's the goal of the club, like what's, what else are they working on besides? Just also just the golf stuff. But like what's going on in the clubhouse, like what's what's the whole vibe been?
Speaker 2:one other thing too it's funny, as we were just kind of workshopping through this a little bit is you also need a superintendent who's not afraid to put their foot down and say no. And what I mean by that is, you know you get into, let's say, july in the summer in the mid Atlantic, where it's 90 degrees to a hundred degrees, with 70, 80, 90% humidity. Yeah, at some point you are growing a living, breathing. You know, plant can't sustain green speed, conditions and firmness when, again, you don't have the resources, the staff, the budgets to support the, the infrastructure to support that consistency day in, day out.
Speaker 2:Um, it's no different than a human being like if you're, if you're expecting to perform like a world-class athlete but you're eating mcdonald's and you're expecting to perform like a world-class athlete but you're eating McDonald's and you're not exercising every day, probably not going to sustain, you know, world-class performance at all. You know what I mean. So you need to have a superintendent that can communicate and not be afraid to say no but be open to finding solutions, um, and communicate those solutions and reasons why. You know certain things go on on a golf course, so members want to be communicated to. I mean that that's another key thing so is that how you see people?
Speaker 1:I don't want to say like getting in trouble, but like you know. But if like, is this, is that where you see maybe people getting you know it? Uh, is they, you know, the, the club? Oh, we want x, y and z and just, and it's like a new person coming in. They go, oh, I could give you that. And then they get there and realize like, oh, but like they almost knew they couldn't. But they're, oh, maybe I, you know, it's like the guy or the girl, like I'm going to change them, like I'm going to make them. Let you know what I mean. So it's like, oh, no, I'm going to make this. And then they realize they can't do it. And they're like, oh crap, and now the expectation was already there, and then it's not being met. So is that kind of what you're talking about? Can people get into trouble that way too? So, kind of like going back to what you said about, no, it's like putting your foot down, going like, okay, listen, you want that I can come in.
Speaker 2:I need and with the budget, like, is that, is that kind of what you're spoiling down to is just communication and just not. Yeah, one of my greatest meant one of my greatest mentors was was my greens chairman, um, or was a former greens chairman, and then he had always told me your biggest challenge is going to be managing expectations. Don't over promise and under deliver. Yeah, right, um. So I think being able to manage that and be pragmatic about what's real and not, and not be afraid to voice your opinion, and you need to communicate that. And if you. And the other thing too, is if you get.
Speaker 2:What I'm finding, interestingly enough, is if people let's say they're having a difficult summer and listen, every superintendent at some point in their career has lost grass. So if any club in America thinks that that's not realistic, they're foolish. But I think that being able to ask for help and be able to communicate when things are going wrong, I think is an equally important skill set, because you're going to have challenges right, whether it's labor, whether it's, you know, downtimes with the economy. Maybe membership numbers aren't where they're at. You didn't invest into some of the drainage, you didn't invest in the irrigation.
Speaker 2:Whatever the case may be, you're going to be dealing with some sort of limitations at some point and you can't be afraid to expose yourself and tell people that, hey, here's what we did, what we didn't do, here's what we need to do. But damn sure you better do what you say you're going to do, because it's accountability and people want that. They don't want to be told fluff, oh, we'll do this, we'll do this, and 30, 60, 90 days later nothing's been done. So you can't be afraid to ask for help, and I think that's one really cool thing about this industry is the power of the networking side of it that most people, even though we're competing businesses all want to see each other succeed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, because when something happens, you know it's it's. It's such a niche, small industry that when something like when good happens, it's good for everybody. It's like, you know, people uh say like the same with like magic, like, oh, what do you think about? Like I love a magic's on tv, because then it makes it better for everybody, because then people like are enjoying it. So it's like the same with like magic, like oh, what do you think about? Like I love a magic's on tv, because then it makes it better for everybody, because then people like are enjoying it. So it's like the more people are having a good experience with whatever the product is, the more it helps everybody. Uh, so the more clubs that thrive, we all thrive.
Speaker 2:Um yeah, I find too. What's interesting and I took it totally for granted coming up through the ranks is the power of the network, right and? And there's different circles. It's no different coming up through the ranks as the power of the network Right and there's different circles. It's no different than college football, right, you got the Nick Saban tree, you got the bill Belichick, you got Dabo sweetie, you got James Franklin. I guess you could say that's, that's a, that's also a network tree. But I think that that's another key. Other superintendents, that's agronomists, academia suppliers, you know it's, it's beyond just the people that are growing grass making sure your superintendent and your club officials have a great network and you're investing into that. That's where great ideas come from yeah, no, that's, that's.
Speaker 1:Uh, that's a, it's probably a, a point people wouldn't have thought about as they're hiring and looking. It's like, okay, yes, they might be great, they talk all this good stuff, they have amazing recommendations, but what's their network like? Who can they pull from? Who are they friends with? Also, if nobody likes them and they don't have anybody to pull from, that's not good. Yeah, I find it interesting and maybe you see this and I haven't have anybody to pull from.
Speaker 2:That's not good. Yeah, I find it interesting and maybe you see this and I haven't been exposed enough at the general manager search, although we've done a few of those and a handful of those and golf professional things like that. On the agronomy side, it's like committees oftentimes affiliate with clubs that they recently played. They go to a member guest event, they see a tournament on the event. They go to some, they see a T a tournament on the golf course and they think, well, we'll just go pull the guy from X, y, z club Cause they hosted the U S open. Well, that's not always applicable to your facility. It's not apples to apples.
Speaker 2:No budgets are different, resources are different personalities. Yeah, and I think general managers are getting more savvy about understanding that it's not just as simple as going and pulling the guy. Even though they may have come from a great network and a great club, that doesn't mean that they want to be there, so if they're just following a check and you're just kind of talking to them with money.
Speaker 1:It's like, yeah, but if they're not genuinely going to be like you know, I don't know Sometimes it's, you know, is it a really a good fit for both and is that what they're looking for? And that's kind of what I've been. I just had a chat yesterday, yesterday, with a general manager about that it's. You know, they enjoy being hands-on, so they like a certain like they're, they found their type of club. It's like they enjoy also doing some of the events because the club's not massive so they can handle it's maybe a hundred person event. They enjoy being hands-on, they don't mind and want to pull a table, they enjoy just being in it and just, you know, kind of being a part of it and them going to another club that they would have more people under them or, you know, they wouldn't have to do as much. That's not a fit for them. So it's the same thing. It's it's finding really good fits and like understanding.
Speaker 2:I find it so again fascinating that I joke with a lot of my peers and friends that when I was a superintendent I couldn't get our greens chairman, couldn't get our board to approve you know, some simple little improvements. I go to some of the most recognized, reputable facilities in the world and we'll have conversations like this. I'm like, well, I'm going to implement what Tyler said and I'm like, how does it work that I go to these places and they accept my feedback and yet go to my own current, previous role. I is really be honest about who they are as a company, what their reputation is in the market, because that may impede or also could accelerate a search process, depending on the reputation of that club Sometimes members aren't exposed to that on the reputation of that club, sometimes members aren't exposed to that, they're exposed to just day-to-day things and maybe overlook some of the culture aspects, reputation in the market, how they've treated employees, and I think it's important for us to be really clear on that.
Speaker 2:And you got to cipher through or sift through the BS and what's real. Not everything that you hear in the industry is true. And what's all bad isn't bad and what's all good isn not everything that you hear in the industry is true and, um, you know, what's all bad isn't bad and what's all good isn't good. Try to find somewhere in the middle. But give people at least a benchmark of here's where you're at, where do you want to go, and here's sort of what we would prescribe, as you know, those next steps and the kind of candidates you should be looking at. That can help you go from, you know, point a to point z.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah yeah, you have also have a podcast. Leadership on the links. Tell us about that, you. It's, it's, it's it's. I thought I had a niche show here on private club radio. The leadership on the links takes it to a niche. Your level Makes it to a niche-ier level.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'll tell you, the story was this was probably two years ago. I was doing a lot of travel, right, so I'd go and visit with friends, network with clubs, and I was on the road quite a bit and I kept having the same exact conversation every club and I was like man, I need to come up with a way to streamline this so I'm not wasting my time on the road and there's a way to like share the same insights and the same um, share our network with people, um out in a broader scale, and I was like I wonder if a podcast would do it and listen. It was a lot of work. So the way we kind of like developed it with, uh, with another company that helped us kind of get things set up, we basically batched interviews at once to kind of launch. Right, it was a lot of work because it was timely. I'd have to try to like do a lot of these interviews and really the premises was around leadership you know what today's clubs need to be thinking about and the challenges that they deal with, the success stories and sharing that, because I think other people benefit from, you know, hearing some of those stories. So it was a fascinating journey, kind of getting it launched it was. It was tough. Our team was like in the midst of what our primary businesses, while also starting a podcast.
Speaker 2:Now it has become a real. It's like a, it's like a. Again, I call it like a baby. It's my baby, Like my. It's a project I enjoy doing. It gets a network and meet with people that are in various roles in golf. It's not just specifically, golf course, superintendents, although it probably more serves that audience of people. Right, it's funny you say that. But yeah, you talk about more niche of of creating a podcast specifically for superintendents about leadership. Yeah, a podcast specifically for superintendents, um, about leadership, yeah, uh, I'm not sure how much more niche we can get down from that, but I I probably could find something. So how do you? How do you enjoy? I mean you see, you get to meet so many different personalities and hear some fascinating stories. I mean it's opened my eyes a lot more, um to what goes on at at clubs in the golf industry. You know, hearing some of the stories.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um yeah. Yeah, I was just talking to somebody I almost wanted to apply as a general manager, just to see. At this point, I just want to see if I could. I almost want to do. Yeah, I was thinking about applying to one of the KKWs, just to hit submit and just to see how long it takes to get a text from Tom Wallace to get a text from Tom Wallace.
Speaker 2:Well, I had to laugh at this story. This was probably three years ago. It's probably three years, maybe two, it was probably two years ago. I was doing a director search director of agronomy search for a club in Texas and when we started the process off I had put my resume in our internal system just to make sure, like hey, all the communication that's being set is fine, and I never took it out right. I basically dropped it down to the bottom of the list of candidates but I never took the resume out. So when I was working with the it was a small ownership group the owner called me and he says how come we didn't interview this one candidate down at the bottom? I was like oh, who's that? And he's like Tyler bloom. And I just started laughing. I was like wouldn't it be amazing if I made like an announcement yeah, the new director of agronomy at XYZ club was Tyler bloom. The process was facilitated by Tyler bloom consulting.
Speaker 1:Bonus checks signed by Tyler bloom.
Speaker 2:Overtime bonus checks signed by tyler bloom, overtime signed by tyler bloom approved. Uh yeah, I pinched myself though, like to your, to your point, though, like I look back at all the things that I've learned networking with people here over the last few years, I'd be I'd be a much better superintendent today, would be much more focused, efficient, effective, um, because I probably, like most people, got caught in the weeds on things that really weren't that important in the grand scheme of, like the business function, and probably would be much more, um, appreciative, more engaged into the work environment. Not that I wasn't I think I've always been an engaged person in whatever I do but I definitely would be a much better superintendent, club leader today, um, because of the experiences I've had over the last few years.
Speaker 1:You're like, the next job that comes in for 600 K is going to be slide my resume in there and yeah, well, listen, I think you know, man, you want to talk about an interesting dynamic.
Speaker 2:I think probably across the club industry is maybe some of those more senior levels, superintendents or executives that you know maybe three, maybe five, 10 years ago, would be looked at as either past their prime. I think that those kinds of individuals are going to find more and more opportunities because clubs are going to value that experience, just because there's such a gap in the knowledge base, the skill sets in today's workforce, that it's, I think, it's extending the careers of a lot of club executives because there's just not that pool of candidates coming, coming in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think the, the consultancy of you know, sometimes not even just have, just being able to have somebody for a fraction, just to be able to pull from them once a month, once a quarter, once a year, twice a year, just to cause cause. All you need is that, is that one little nugget, that one little bit of to go. Ah, son of a B, yep, let me, yeah, let's adjust here, let's pivot this. Ah, that's a great idea, let's do that.
Speaker 2:It's interesting. I I've had this thought in my head and I, you know, again I don't. I don't think we'll be the leaders in this space, because it's probably more of a distraction at this point. But I do see, if I'm a club and you have a young, new leader, whether it's a superintendent, a golf pro, club manager why wouldn't you invest into some sort of executive coaching or consulting from somebody that's done it before at a high level and help mentor and coach that person up?
Speaker 2:A thing that I see and it's just again an observant eye is I find a lot of people that come into these roles and they finally feel like, yeah, hey, I hit the final peak of my career, I'm now the leader, the learning has stopped, I'm the boss and we all need coaching, we all need some sort of objective reasoning and mentorship. And I'm surprised that more clubs and I and I've seen some of the other firms um start to offer more management development training programs to help that. Because I again, I think there is a skills and knowledge gap um in the, in the workforce, that I think, if I'm a, if I'm a, an experienced executive, coming up with some sort of a coaching program, leadership development is is worthwhile for any club to invest in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's a whole. That's a whole other can of worms there. Anything else you want to touch on? Add on before we start to wrap it up here.
Speaker 2:Well, one of the things I wanted to say is I appreciate you know we have, we have our paths have crossed in a really unique way. So you're obviously your wife grew up in Berwick and you were, you know, probably more peripheral, we weren't in the same graduation class, but it's such a small industry and the social networking aspect is fascinating. So I've enjoyed kind of learning what you do and listening into all the conversations you have, cause I've learned, you know I've learned. I've not stopped learning about the club industry. Um, even though we specialize more in the golf course super intense that I just, I just enjoy learning what is happening and the dynamics around clubs is such a fascinating social, you know, experience or experiment. So I think, um, you know, from us we've got, uh, we've got a pretty fun study that's coming out.
Speaker 2:Uh, it's a workforce trends in golf. We partnered with a national research firm called the center for generational kinetics and the whole premise around it was to explore why average working Americans would or would not be interested in careers at golf courses. And this is interesting. I'm curious, if you could, what do you think were the top? Were the top reasons? What? Two or three reasons why people wouldn't consider a career in golf?
Speaker 1:um pay? Uh, can you ask me that question again, but in the tone of steve harvey and we could pretend like we're playing Family Feud?
Speaker 2:No, I would say pay. I'm not that quick-witted or that good.
Speaker 1:Pay knowledge, experience like the understanding of it, and I would say, having to work outside weather conditions. But I was watching your face and I think I'm off on all three, so tell me.
Speaker 2:I'm wrong. You're saying what everybody and what I would have thought of. I would have thought of those same or similar type things, the top three factors why people would not consider, or what would prevent them from taking or considering, a job. They've never been to a golf course, don't know how much a golf course, don't know much about golf or golf courses and they're not sure how much they pay.
Speaker 1:That's like I have nothing to do with it. Two out of three there's nothing yeah Well they don't know much about the career right.
Speaker 2:So there's a huge opportunity, I think, for clubs in general to um, and I think the or the industry as a whole, whether it's the club managers, the PGA, gcsa, golf course owners, associations, whatever affiliate association is really trying to make workforce development and make the make the career pathways more visible, accessible, um, but, but there's still continued work, um.
Speaker 2:Another finding is that while people may have limited knowledge and exposure, they kind of view it as a positive career and a positive environment to be in, and so I think that there's opportunity there to continue telling our story, whether you're at the local mom and pop facility or a top 100 elite level facility.
Speaker 2:It's kind of an interesting dynamic between all those different club levels of their impacts in the club communities and in their own little communities as well. Club manager department head is the number one way to attract. What we found is the number one factor to attract people would actually come from knowing somebody that already works at a golf course. So if you don't have some sort of an employer referral program or you're not really creating an environment where people are telling your story for you, it's a huge opportunity, I think, to look sort of internally first first and maybe externally at other things that might not necessarily move the needle, using your existing workforce to kind of attract and develop and bring in, recruit new people into the industry. I think is a is a is a key low hanging fruit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So that's exciting, we're excited about that and, you know, and we'll continue um sort of the research side of things, you know, as our company grows, it's going to be a pretty, pretty important piece. I think how we evolve our consultancy or advisory and how we help clubs, you know, is actually having data to support what we're, what we're preaching.
Speaker 1:Yeah, preaching. Yeah Well, tyler OG Bloom, thank you so much for coming on. Really appreciate it, and I will see you soon.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, man. I appreciate it. Hope you all enjoyed that episode. I know I did Such a great conversation. What a awesome dude, tyler. It's been a pleasure meeting, hanging out and look forward to years and years and more and more of it to come. If you have not done so already, check out his podcast Leadership on the Links and while you're doing that, make sure you give Private Club Radio a five-star rating and review. It means the world. It costs nothing. That's this episode. Until next time. I'm your host, denny Corby. Catch you all on the flippity-flip.
