Private Club Radio Show

417: Curiosity Solves Most Problems w/ Ed Chapman, CCM, MSc

• Denny Corby

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What does it take to lead private clubs across the globe and build teams that thrive?
I sat down with Ed Chapman, CEO of Royal Auckland and Grange Golf Club, to talk about his incredible journey through the private club industry.

From the UK to Dubai, Hong Kong, and now New Zealand, Ed has led with a unique blend of empathy, adaptability, and a deep respect for each club’s culture and traditions. He’s managed teams ranging from small groups to over 400 people and shares what he’s learned about creating connections and driving success in vastly different environments.

We talk about:

  • The cultural “aha!” moments that have shaped Ed’s leadership style.
  • Balancing club traditions with the need for innovation and change.
  • How genuine curiosity and care help solve leadership challenges.
  • The lessons he’s learned managing teams in some of the most prestigious clubs worldwide.

Ed’s experiences are packed with insights for leaders at every level. 

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Speaker 1:

Hey everybody, welcome to the Private Club Radio Show, where we give you the scoop on all things private golf and country clubs, from mastering leadership and management, food and beverage excellence, member engagement secrets, board governance and everything in between, all while keeping it fun and light. Whether you're a club veteran just getting your feet wet or somewhere in the middle, you are in the right place. I'm your host, denny Corby. Welcome to the show. In this episode, I am chatting with Ed Chapman, who is the CEO of the Royal Auckland and Grange Golf Club in Auckland, new Zealand, and we're talking about what it takes to lead private clubs across the globe, while navigating cultural differences, building high-performing teams and respecting traditions. This is a fantastic episode because Ed shares his fascinating career journey, which has taken him from the UK to Dubai, hong Kong and now New Zealand, and all along the way, he has tackled challenges like managing diverse teams, preserving club traditions and learning to adapt new cultures with curiosities and openness. And this is just an excellent, excellent, excellent episode. We had a fantastic conversation that I cannot wait for you to listen to. So many nuggets, so much information, and the conversation just never died. It was just so, so good, and I actually got a lot of great takeaways from it, including a book that he recommended that I am listening to right now, called the Art of Possibility. It's just so, so good. I am super excited for this episode. I cannot wait for us to dive in Before we do.

Speaker 1:

Big thanks to some of our show partners Concert Golf Partners, golf Life Navigators and Kenneth's member vetting Going to hear about them a little bit more later on in the episode as well as myself, denny Corby, the Denny Corby Experience, magic, mind reading and comedy. There's excitement, there's mystery. Also there's magic. One of the most fun member event nights your club can have Guaranteed. If you want to learn more, head on over to dennycorbycom. Enough about to dannycorbycom. Enough about that, let's get to the episode. Everybody. Let's welcome to the show all the way from auckland, new zealand. Let's welcome ed chapman. You've had, uh, you've had quite a pretty, pretty cool career traveling all over the world, uh yeah, I've been really fortunate, yeah uk, dubai, hong kong.

Speaker 1:

now you're in new Zealand, where are you originally?

Speaker 2:

from, yeah, from the UK, from a small town north of London. Yeah, how'd you get into clubs? So I used to coach football or soccer as a teenager and really enjoyed coaching, being with people, and they had a coach's golf day. Most of them were like once a year golfers and I was the only person who didn't play any golf. So I thought, oh, it'll be fun, why not give that a go? I'm pretty sporty, the ball's not even moving. How hard can that be?

Speaker 2:

So I picked up some cheap clubs, went to the range a few times, could hit the ball, went out and played, made one par par which I can still really vividly remember, uh, and I was like, oh, this game's awesome. And that got my love affair of golf going, which then led me to want to coach golf, partly because, a I liked coaching and b my first coach was quite, yeah, um, inspiration to me. So then, yeah, got working in golf clubs and then just it's morphed from there into now being the ceo of all oakland and grange, yeah, yeah when you, when you first left the uk for dubai, in what 2011 did you picture?

Speaker 1:

like this career path, or has it?

Speaker 2:

been more of a like one thing led to another one thing led to another.

Speaker 2:

If you'd ask me even when I left dubai and went to hong kong, would I want to be the gm of a golf club? Hell, no, would have been my answer. I've been. I look like the most boring job. What you do is sit in an office doing paperwork, uh, because that's what I'd seen.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and then kind of morphed into realizing I love coaching, not specifically coaching people to be better at hitting a golf ball, but just coaching people to be better. Uh, so as a, as a mentor and a leader, I get to do that still and I really enjoy that side of it. So that's kind of helped. I realized, yeah, what was my enjoyment side of the coaching into then seeing actually what a GM does, which is, I think, from the outside. You don't get to necessarily see that until you start getting into that world, or whether it's listening to podcasts of GMs to sort of get a bit more of an insight. That's such an interesting side of the industry because it's so multifaceted. You get to experience every part of the industry, all of the clubs, f&b and agronomy that it's in such a fascinating role.

Speaker 2:

But I would never would have thought, and I certainly never would have thought. Although I really wanted to move to Dubai, that was my first choice of where I wanted to go, and I wanted to go overseas to then end up in Hong Kong at Hong Kong Golf Club, probably one of the biggest clubs in the world. You've got three 18s and a nine hole course at the city clubhouse. Uh, seven and a half thousand members, it's. It's a huge place.

Speaker 1:

And then to end up down here, yeah, never would have thought that for sure yeah, what's what's been some of like the biggest culture shocks, uh, moving between all these different countries. Were there any moments that made you really stop and go? Well, that's different.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, for sure. I mean I always joke with people when they do move overseas that in the first six months of moving you're going to have a lot of WTF moments, whether that's like what have I done? Why have I come here? You have a lot of those think in Dubai. You go to the Middle East especially I was in my mid-20s and you kind of what you hear or read or get told about it is it's very closed, there's no drinking, there's yeah, it's very, but it's not like that at all. Lots of the locals drink it's, which shouldn't be surprising, because just because there's a religion and it says you should do this doesn't actually mean that's what everybody follows and does, even if they are still passionate about it. So that was probably a bit of a shock where you kind of not expecting that side of it at all. But there is um, in had one one of our members who I, who our coach, was a local. He took me out on his boat and he's picked me up in his car to go down there at 6am in the morning and he's like, oh, pass me a beer from the back. So he's, so he's drinking, he's driving 140 kilometers an hour, so it's like 90 miles an hour, right up into the bumper, uh, with the car in front on the six lane freeway, and I said to myself, are you not worried a about killing us, but b about getting like pulled over? He's like, oh, no problem, uh, my cousin akmed will sort us out. I'm like you have to give me a bit more information. That he's like oh, he's the chief of dubai traffic police, so that's who's in the car of us, yeah. And then he's like, oh, just, he turns to him and says, oh, ed, he goes. Oh, ed is a good person, you look after him. And this guy turns around, gives me his business him and says, oh, ed, he goes. Oh, ed is a good person, you look after him. And this guy turns around, gives me his business card and says, oh, you have a traffic problem, you ring me, no problem.

Speaker 2:

So there's things like that. You're just like, oh, okay, you kind of hear stories like this is how it works. But then you actually really experience it and you're like, oh, okay, wow, quite different um. And then in hong kong it's, it's a bizarre place. You have this obviously real high-end um side to it and then you have the more basic way of life. Where you know I've been following people, they have these like trolleys they use for putting their shopping in. This is a couple of like pigs trotters sticking out the bottom of it from their shopping. So this stuff like that just gets really normal, um. But then there's other things you don't expect.

Speaker 2:

When I spent some time back in the uk, it was really and same here. Still, I find it actually really weird to be able to understand all the conversations going on around me, because in dubai there's so many languages being spoken and in hong kong majority it's local, so they're not speaking English when they're together. So I find it I found it initially actually really overwhelming to be able to understand all these conversations going on around me, versus it just being kind of white noise in the background, uh. So I found probably a reverse culture shock um, probably more of a hard thing to deal with. When I spent about a year back in the uk in 2022, I think it was, uh, that I found actually harder adjusting back to that life and that way of thinking, because that hasn't changed really since I left, but I've changed a lot yeah so that I found quite actually more of a challenge have you found how do I want to phrase it?

Speaker 1:

like your. I feel like you'd have to pick up, you have to be more in tune with like, because, even though you might not be able to understand, but more like the body language, the like, the vibes, the feels like, just like people's you know how, how they're standing, like they're, like the tone. That will even tone Cause uh, that cause isn't that very important in in like Hong Kong, like the same word, just like how it's the, if it's an upwards or downwards, it can mean like something really good or really bad, uh, but I feel like you'd have to be able to like, really like, be able to have that sixth sense sixth sense almost of like, picking up on like, the feel and the vibe and the tone and some of that stuff.

Speaker 2:

Massively. Yeah, I think it does really help you as a communicator and understanding people, because I occasionally would say at the club, say to someone, oh, are you talking about X? And they'd be like, oh, you can understand Cantonese. I'm like, well, no, but that where you're talking, the way you're gesturing your body language and how you're speaking would lead me to think you're talking about this thing and often it'd be right and, as you say, you get this kind of hyper awareness of body language and tone and because you can't understand and you pick up, you learn enough to pick up, pick up the odd word which then goes okay, yeah, they are definitely talking about this thing. Uh, even if you can't understand them. So you do get much more attuned to that, which I think helps in general.

Speaker 1:

Then, with your communication and empathy, what was it like being the outsider in all of these places?

Speaker 2:

yeah, it was certainly in dubai. It was really made you kind of go, take a step back and you get kind of taught through society, I think, whether that's movies etc. That, coming from being white and from western europe, that's kind of like makes you don't know what, like where it is, but like you're the hero in the movie, right, that tends to be what it is. You feel like, oh, I'm, I'm, should be at the top, and it's just like this subconscious thing I think people have I should be at the top, and it's just like this subconscious thing I think people have. And then we get there and we've got our frontline staff who aren't paid a lot. Maybe they're from Bangladesh or Philippines and they speak like four languages and you're like it's really humbling to to suddenly go actually these people, yet they're lowly paid and they're seen as low-skilled workers, but actually they've got this amazing skill set that I don't have of being able to understand and speak lots of other languages, which has enabled them to better come here and work and I think it's easy just to kind of float through the world going oh sweet, I speak english and that gets me through most places, which it does, so that I think, something which um made me feel not as a bit of an outsider, but they're so welcoming People who have the least, often gift the most I found.

Speaker 2:

And when I first got to Dubai I had quite, I say, crippling homesickness which I wasn't expecting. I'd lived together with my partner for six years. I moved out by myself because she was going to come out six months later once we'd had our wedding, which we'd already booked, and it was really hard and a lot of sure. My peer group, but also the frontline workers from different countries, really welcomed me into kind of their group as well, which was made you feel incredibly welcome to do that and something I've kind of tried to do myself as well.

Speaker 2:

But I think being on the outside it just makes you, gives you a whole different view on the world, and that's what I think I struggled with with that reverse culture. Back in the uk everything's a bit um, closed-minded and looked at a certain way, whereas when you go and experience different cultures, whether that's through travel or work, it just makes you a lot more open and understanding that there's lots of different ways to look at the world. Um, but ultimately we're all people who just kind of want to be happy and have the healthy family and kind of all striving for the same thing, even if you're from the most diverse backgrounds yeah, so kind of kind of along that same token, have there been right because you've been, you know some very prestigious clubs all over the world?

Speaker 1:

Have you found any, maybe like one or two universal truths about managing private golf and country clubs, no matter where they're located in the world?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, people just want to be, people want to know you, you care, especially as you get more senior in the management roles. But, like here, we've got members who are multi-generational and my conversations with some of them when I've been with them or been playing golf with them is what they really want to know is do I have, do I care and I'm passionate about the club because they are massively so. That's almost their number one thing they assume. I'm in the job because I know what I'm doing. Therefore, that side of it they don't really seem to be that interested in or bothered about, because they'll appreciate the committee's done their due diligence to employ someone who knows what they're doing. They just want to know do you really care about them and the club and the heritage and their future to it? I think that's something which comes across.

Speaker 2:

All clubs have been at, yeah, and then both members and staff just want to feel seen and heard. I saw a good quote yesterday came up which was um, along the lines of the most generous gift you can give anybody is your undivided attention. And I think in this world where we have apple watches, where you get a notification and you just glance down at it mid conversation or while they're talking um a is incredibly rude. Um and not to say that I don't do it because it's just reflex reaction that we've trained ourselves or we've been trained by companies to do which um I would I, I'm sure if I was in their shoes as well want people to do that. But, given some of your true undivided attention, I think that's something which staff members all over the world if you can do that, that's really what everyone wants.

Speaker 1:

Have you found? Different cultures take to that differently.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, definitely so. In Germany, speaking like Hong Kong, it's a much more differential society. So I would always start with Mr So-and-so, if I first meet them and wait for them to maybe give me their first name, and then it's that if you actually make an eye contact, being quite like you would say in the US, that can be seen as a bit less differential. So you'd actually want to be a little bit more, say, submissive on that side initially, to build that relationship with that. So how you go about it can be different, how you make people feel seen and heard, because, again, in not every culture do they appreciate small talk. Sometimes that's not necessary.

Speaker 2:

Small talk, um, sometimes that's not necessary. Yeah, and generally not all of asia, but a lot of it. It's quite a fast paced society and the whole small talk thing just want to get stuff done in a nice efficient manner and you're sure there's a time and a place for it, but most of the time not. So it's an understanding what is important for them, because again, that's showing that you've seen and heard them or that or their culture more that you're able to kind of morph into what's appropriate now, is that something that you were told?

Speaker 1:

did you pick up on it? Was it in your own research? A mixture of all the above yeah, all the above.

Speaker 2:

So a bit of research, which, having done lots of research before I moved to dubai and then I got there and found out the reality, told me actually the most that research was obviously written by people who had never been or lived there. So then it's a case of, yeah, living it and just asking people as well, asking questions, try and live from a place of curiosity. It gets you through most situations. It gets you past anger situations. It gets you past anger and frustration if you're just curious as to why is this thing done like that? Why have they not? And spoken in this manner like why is it different?

Speaker 2:

I think if you approach that, you get to understand a lot quicker and not assuming that just because the way I've been brought up to do something doesn't mean it's actually the right way, it just means it's the cultural norm in that place doesn't mean it's the same. In talking to someone from Iran or China or Chile, wherever it might be, and even simple things like I do my research moving to Dubai, research moving to dubai, it's quite clear you shouldn't ever like shake hands of a woman from there because it's just not not meant to be a done thing. Yeah, actually, often they'll put their hand out to shake yours. You shouldn't initiate it. You want to give them the space and the comfort that if they're comfortable they'll do it, and then you accept it. So it's just little things like that understanding actually the, the reality of how the places work yeah, how big were your teams at these different clubs all all over the world?

Speaker 1:

I'm assuming big, small. What was the range like?

Speaker 2:

yeah, everything. So in hong kong there was a director of golf and myself, so ultimately he was accountable for the whole department, but we had 15 PGA professionals and then around including full-time coaches and then anywhere between sort of 70 to 80 golf operations staff and then the whole club was about 450. And then where I am now we've got a full team, about 60 across all departments, which everybody got quite a bigger club for new zealand and then dubai. We had that'd be sort of 100 odd at the club or so, but it was part of a hotel. Intercontinental hotels managed the club and they had three hotels that joined it. So we had 1200 staff, including the hotels, with something like 150 different nationalities. Uh, work in there, uh, which was certainly pretty interesting. And then back in the uk, you really typical very small club with sort of 20 staff and like four of us in the golf team.

Speaker 1:

What's the? I don't want to say the secret, but you know what's the. I don't want to say the secret, but you know what's. What's the secret to leading such diverse groups effectively large, small and just diverse in the people.

Speaker 2:

I think for me I'd come back to curiosity and genuinely caring and being interested in people. Um, now with a team of sort of 70, 80 in Hong Kong, um, and not all of them had english names. So quite often in hong kong china, they'll have, they won't have a legal english name, but they'll kind of just choose one to make life simpler for them and other people communicating. But not all of them did so. It could be quite hard to get all the names right, but they didn't really seem to be bothered as long as you showed a genuine interest.

Speaker 2:

When you talk to them and again comes back to the undivided attention, you're making them feel like the only person you're interested in talking to. You're not looking out for is there a member or someone more important to speak to? You're just giving them your undivided attention, that you show that you care, and if you do that, they'll do their best job because they know they're looked after. So then you don't have to try and manage all these people after. So then you don't have to try and manage all these people. They're going to do it the right thing, do the best job that they can, because they know that you care.

Speaker 1:

Did you find it difficult at all? Because clubs are steeped in tradition often and if you're coming in from an from the outside, from a whole different country, you know how do you decide when to embrace change versus kind of sticking with the classics, and how did you manage that?

Speaker 2:

yeah, I think it's understanding why things are done how they're done. It's really easy to come in and go well, that's ridiculous, that's not efficient or it could be done quicker or we could done it. We could do the same outcome cheaper. But it's finding out what's, what's the underlying reason why something's done like that. And then what what can and can't be changed, what should just be left, what's the sacred cow, what you really shouldn't touch and shouldn't change, even though you could make it better, and understanding the history behind things.

Speaker 2:

So we have an event here which is really popular with the members. It's probably one of the biggest event for the men and that had been changed a few years ago to being a shotgun start because it was operationally more efficient and allowed more members not involved in the event to play. And the members hated it because it wasn't the tradition of the event. The tradition of the event was a one-tee start through the whole day with a starter. Those who are families can play early, go home, see the family, then come back for the dinner and just by reinstating that, that suddenly got a huge number of people just on board, because you've gone back to the roots and the tradition of that event, even though it's probably slightly less efficient than it could be, but that's not always the goal, so it's just taking taking your time, I think, and speaking to people again and now, was that something that you changed and then changed back, or was that changed before you came?

Speaker 1:

and then you were there, you had your feet on the ground, you were listening and you're like, hey guys, let's, let's, let's, let's bring it back exactly.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so it'd already been changed, I don't know for how long exactly, and before I got here, and then my first year here, when we organized in that event, a few of the members who are really passionate about it, um, came forward and put their kind of two cents in that. Actually, this is how it's been done historically. The event's losing its character and is how it's been done historically. The event's losing its character and tradition and it's been going since 1957 and it's a lot of our members, their parents, played in it. Some of their grandparents would have done it and it's really meaningful and they wanted to go back to that. So that was a pretty easy win from that side of showing, yeah, it aligns with our values. One of our values is about respecting the history of the club while looking to the future. So some things sure, we change and do it more efficient. Other things actually, there's a good reason why it's done like that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so I was. I was creeping a bit on your LinkedIn and I saw that you implemented the first employee of the month program at Royal Auckland. What was that like, and do you remember who the first winner was and why they stood out?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely so. It's something I've been thinking about for a while. I've got quite a long list of stuff I'd like to implement, so then it's a case of just picking out here and there ones to put in, so it's not just like here's 50 new things, and that's one that had been on my list for a little while. And then we had an incident on the course where a member, or actually his guest, who was on our waiting list, collapsed and one of our golf operations team grabbed in a golf cart as soon as the radio message came in and went straight out there Quite a young lad as well. And he got out there and the guy was breathing but unconscious and already called the ambulance. And the members were like oh well, let's get him on the golf cart, let's move him, let's get him nearer to the entrance so the ambulance can get him quicker.

Speaker 2:

But they didn't know why he had collapsed and although this guy's only like 21, he just said to him, said, no, that's not the correct first aid thing. We put him in the recovery position. We do not move him because we don't. We don't know what's wrong, we wait for the ambulance. Uh, so to stand up to three people twice your age, um, to say no, that's not the right thing. That was the kind of catalyst that went okay, this really needs acknowledging. This is a perfect situation to really kick off this employee of the month with something that's uh, took quite a lot of courage to follow through with and do so. That was our first one and I think was a pretty good one to start with, and each person gets a gift. That's a very high bar.

Speaker 1:

Sorry, that's a real.

Speaker 2:

Oh no, yeah, that was I know, yeah, yeah, so follow that everyone.

Speaker 1:

This is a standard people be like choking out. The members should try to get them high yeah, yeah, and what was cool?

Speaker 2:

because he was then moving to the agronomy team and so the gift we got him was a, an engraved with his name, leatherman, as a tool. So that's now I. It was really nice gift for him moving into that world and something that's going to be really every time he's going to look at that. It's going to be a reminder of why he got it and that's kind of what he's driving for. So it's quite, quite cool.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, now has, because I was also seeing that you're you improve the net promoter score. Is that in correlation with the employee of the month? I'm sure it's probably part of it, but was there any like? Was that kind of correlated at all? Like, oh, you know, when your people are saving members, that really has to help the numbers. Also, when your people are saving members, that really has to help the numbers also, yeah, no deaths this year.

Speaker 2:

So that last result was before we started the Employee of the Month. We've got our next survey going out in about two or three months. It'll be interesting to see how that's picked up again. A lot of that's just simple stuff. I don't think anything's really drastically changed. Just lots of small things improve all the time and members do notice those things and comment on them. Whether it's something as simple as we have lots of refreshing cold towels for the summer months, which hadn't really been done before, but something that's really normal in asia that you come off the golf course there's a wet cold towel which has got whether it's lemon or lavender, whatever fragrance, and it's just really refreshing. Um, just those little small details that I don't cost a lot to implement, doesn't take a lot, but they're the sort of things that have really improved the member satisfaction and engagement with the club were there any because you've you've done so many things for so many different clubs?

Speaker 1:

have you, is there any because you've done so many things for so many different clubs? Is there any? Maybe one challenge that you've tackled or one thing that you've accomplished that you're maybe most proud of or feel most fulfilled about?

Speaker 2:

That is a very good question.

Speaker 2:

Probably a recent one that springs to mind would be we had a front of house manager who got quite sick and had to step down but we didn't know if they're going to come back.

Speaker 2:

So then we had someone come in, their deputy stepped up as acting front of house manager and did the role for about six months and then got fully promoted into the role permanently and kind of in the last or almost a year now. Since I've done that, seeing from where they went, the way they started, even based things like their committee report to where it is now, that growth um, someone who's you can see their confidence growing, you can see the performance that would be something that I think been really fulfilling. Seeing how much they've progressed and similar in past roles people doing their PGA maybe their overseas PGA in a different language that's not their first language and getting through that and that, helping their career move on. I think that comes back to that coaching side of it that I kind of got into the industry with is that's what I enjoy. I enjoy seeing people develop, improve and become better versions of themselves. That's where I get my most fulfillment, beyond your traditional KPIs.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, was, was coaching, because that you've mentioned it in different capacities. You know from the beginning, you know all throughout the episode. Has that always been a part of your life? And I can't remember if you mentioned it earlier. But like, did you have coaches in some capacity early on in like your childhood? Like was it was? Was that always there or was this, was this kind of more of uh in your adult career and growth path?

Speaker 2:

bit of both. So part of a slightly different um educational childhood the most. I was homeschooled until I was like age 10 or 11. Um, so were both my older sisters, something my parents were quite um into and that really developed a love of learning. Because there's the maths and the english. You just have to do so. The government says yeah, and then the rest of it is a bit more, it'd be much freer. So my parents approach was well, what do you want to learn about what you're interested in? So I'd kind of get to choose. Says yeah, and then the rest of it is a bit more, you'd be much freer. So my parents approach was well, what do you want to learn about what you're interested in? So I'd kind of get to choose the topic. Then they would then facilitate the learning.

Speaker 2:

So I think that from early on, given me a passion for learning, which that I think is what comes across then in my coaching. Uh, having my first coach in golf was someone who I'm still good friends with now. It's like 20 odd whatever. Years ago he coached me and him taking me on and improving me and seeing what I was capable of. I think you need, you need those people. They've been really influential in my life and I think, having someone who can see what you're capable of and pushing you towards that Because I don't think any of us really know what we can do it's much easier from the outside people going no, actually you've got these skills that you don't know you have Because the things we're really good at they're easy for us. So we don't really know that they're amazing skills because they're easy and you need someone else to better go. No, actually that thing you can do, that's amazing, and people other people can't do that. You need to take that and grow it and go with it.

Speaker 2:

I think that's something which you need someone from the outside who's also in a position themselves of um success where you can look at them and go, wow, if they think I can do it, then amazing, no, our captain here, who was finishing as captain when they were going through the recruitment process to appoint the CEO role that I then got because I was here as director of golf originally. Um, you know he's someone who had said that he thought I was capable of doing the role and stepping up into it and he chairs the boards of some of the biggest companies in new zealand. So I was like well, if someone in that role, who works with some of the best ceos in the country, thinks I'm capable of it, well then I must be. Yeah, um, I think that that side of things and because it's happened to me, I find it kind of sit is my duty to better raise up people around me by making them aware of what their superpowers are, that, to them, are just their normal skills.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, do you have a like a perfect, do you have a coach now yourself, like, are you like, do you have, like, are you big into actual like coaching? Like, do you have a coach now?

Speaker 2:

I did so for the first six months of taking on the CEO role. I took on an executive coach, which really helped me through that initial transition of understanding the role, being able to set boundaries, not overworking, as it's really easy to do in this industry. Is you hire what you get of be able to bring my best self every day by controlling how much I work. That was really useful, um, and there's someone I'd probably go back to at some point um in the future what were some of your takeaways from working with them?

Speaker 2:

key things would have been taking the time to reflect, to actually sit back and look at where, what times a day, am I best at doing different things, whether that's meetings, crack a line of work, um, how to you had to set boundaries with the team of going no, actually that's not my job, as much as you'd like to push that on to me. Um, that's for you to go and figure out. Because what, what gets you through your career to a certain point is basically saying yes to everything. Certainly was for me. Anyway, I've been able to go. Yeah, look at me, I can do all these different tasks. I get this all done. Um, aren't I an amazing show pony kind of thing? But that's as you want to move up. You kind of need to do that. You need to say yes to every volunteer opportunity to showcase your skills.

Speaker 2:

But once you actually get into, say, the gm or ceo role, actually your number one objective is to say no to almost everything. That doesn't fall onto a very, very small list of what your priorities are, and that's probably one thing I took from her which really helped was to lay out what are my priorities, what are my absolute critical things to get done for this long-term strategic plan of the club and for the betterment of the staff and anything that doesn't fall inside of those to either say no to or just go. Yeah, okay, when I've got an hour, whatever time, that I just want something different to do, then I'll look at that and the rest of it to say no to, which has been a challenge, but something I'm getting better at.

Speaker 1:

Are there any? Do you do you read about like coaching, like, do you have you read like coaching books and like stuff like that? Is that like? Is that part of your?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I wouldn't say specifically coaching, but leadership books yeah, listen to loads of podcasts, read a lot of books and listen to audiobooks as well, and I think the Art of Possibility by Benjamin Zander, I think his wife, rosamund Sander, the.

Speaker 1:

Art of Possibility.

Speaker 2:

The Art of Possibility. Yeah, so he's the conductor for the Boston Philharmonic Orchestra.

Speaker 1:

I'm not yeah. Yeah, you're making notes, that's okay. That's all good. I'm adding it to my Amazon. Actually, I think.

Speaker 2:

I just got three more.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely my monthly three Audible credits.

Speaker 2:

So I think I might just yeah, my monthly three audible credits. So I think I might just yeah. And the the audio. The audio book is brilliant because he actually uses some music to portray some points and talk through what he's done and and it's about, uh yeah, giving people a framework of possibility to lean into rather than saying, necessarily these are the standards you must do. Here's a framework of what you could become or what we could achieve, and I find it's a book that really energizes me and gives me a whole another layer or level of enthusiasm every time I listen to it, and I think that's something I've enjoyed listening and reading about leadership books, but importantly, taking something to, taking at least one thing and implementing it.

Speaker 2:

There's no point listening and reading stuff If you just go, oh, that was nice and you don't actually improve or do something from it. Even fiction books I do like A lot of the best fiction books have amazing life lessons in them. Same as something like Ted Lasso has amazing leadership lessons in it, so does like Neil Gaiman's books. They have amazing stuff hidden in the storyline and it's also nice just to actually take a bit of time and relax and enjoy listening to something. Not everything has to be about self-improvement.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's one thing I'm trying to work on for 2025. It's hard for me sometimes to get into like more of a fiction, like more of like a storybook, because, like my, my brain just keeps on wandering off.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so that's the audio books yeah, great fiction book read by the author. So I mean, neil Gaiman's is brilliant. It gets you absorbed in the story. I think when you, I struggle a little bit more with fiction books when I read the physical book because I tend to just unless I've put my phone in another room it's tend to get distracted. But if you're listening to an audio book and it's riveting, then that's when you can. I personally, I can really find I can just, yeah, switch off into it yeah, what's your's your favorite book that Neil has done?

Speaker 1:

I think the Graveyard Book, the Graveyard Okay.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, the Graveyard Book, that's brilliant. It's a bit the history behind it was, and I love this story. He had an idea for a book which he thought was going to be amazing and he had it when he realized he wasn't a good enough writer to make the book as good as it could be yet. So he sat on it for like 20 years because the graveyard book if you think of the jungle book yeah, the graveyard book, that's kind of how you got the idea and everything. It's so vividly described because he's taken things from different places. He's been around the world and gone, wow, that'd be the perfect cemetery. That's the one I'm picturing for my book, and then another bit like that and, uh, it's a really cool story and for me, I found it just, yeah, you riveted into it, but it's got it's a lot of leadership lessons in there.

Speaker 1:

Still, oh cool, I like that. Uh, just wondering real quick. So, out of all the places that you've lived, is there one lived, worked at? Has there been one that matches or one that you vibe with the best like? Has there been one that like it?

Speaker 2:

just like it, used it, just clicked I think all of them have at the stage of my life. I I was in, so living in Dubai in my mid-20s. Fortunately I had a partner, so in the sense that it's really easy to just get sucked into the crazy lifestyle of Dubai, but being in our mid to late 20s, being able to still just enjoy Dubai so many amazing restaurants and bars, beaches and activities a lot of fun um, looking back on it now, it was a bit crazy, I think, in terms of like, just you work long days but then you're going out for drinks, then the weekend you're days off, you're doing lots of stuff. I look at that now and go. I don't think I'd probably want to be doing that so, but it was great at the time. Uh, same with hong kong a little bit um cool place, lots going on in your late 20s, early 30s there. I think it's a great place to better go and do lots of exploring, frenetic kind of go, go, go lifestyle.

Speaker 2:

Um, with islands to go to and explore was cool, uh, whereas I think now I've been just nearly touching 14 not quite yet having somewhere a little bit more laid back but gives you still lots going on at work, but outside of that it's a pretty laid-back culture. Lots of outdoors activities to do, love my cycling, so I can get out and do that as well, which I wasn't into in Dubai or Hong Kong and really wouldn't be able to do much there anyway. So I think everyone's kind of matched where I've been in my life, love them all, just all very, very different. New Zealand's got amazing lifestyle, amazing outdoor activities. It's just a very long way away from everywhere else.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah. Anything else you want to add or touch on that we haven't uh talked about no, I don't think so.

Speaker 2:

I think yeah, like I said earlier, when it comes to different cultures and live in different countries, curiosity solves most problems. If things are done differently doesn't mean they're done better or worse, they're just done differently and trying to find out a bit about why. Uh, it's pretty interesting and curiosity leads the way for that.

Speaker 1:

I think that's going to be our episode title curiosity solves most problems. I like that. I like that a lot. Nice, I like that. Uh, thank you so much for coming on. This was a great chat chat trap. This is a is a great chat and a wonderful conversation. I don't think there was like one dull moment. This is amazing.

Speaker 2:

No, I appreciate it, Denny. It's really enjoyed talking to you and thanks for having me on.

Speaker 1:

Hope you all enjoyed that episode. Ed, thank you once again so much for coming on the show. Absolutely fantastic, so many good nuggets. Thank you, thank you, thank you. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure you share it with a friend, a colleague, someone you like, someone you don't like. Give it a rating and a review. Things like that help move the channel forward and cost absolutely nothing. That's this episode. Hope you all enjoyed it. I'm your host, denny Corby. Catch you on the flippity flip.

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