Private Club Radio Show
Welcome to the Private Club Radio Show, the industry's weekly source for education, news, trends, and other current developments in the world of private clubs.
Hosted by the talented entertainer and industry expert, Denny Corby,
the podcast offers a unique perspective on the private club industry, featuring expert guests, product spotlights, predictions, and more.
Whether you're involved in a golf club management, yacht clubs, athletic clubs, or business clubs, the Private Club Radio Show is the essential podcast for
anyone seeking valuable insights and information on the latest trends and developments in the private club industry.
Private Club Radio Show
418: Big Ideas & Bigger Leadership Moves w/ Josh Paris CCM, CCE
Big changes are happening in private clubs, and Josh Paris, CCM, CCE is at the center of it all. From overseeing massive renovations at his club to running for the CMAA National Board, Josh is leading in more ways than one.
In this episode, we dive into:
- The thought process behind his club’s major renovation—what worked, what didn’t, and lessons learned.
- His CMAA Board campaign and what he hopes to bring to the industry.
- How clubs can evolve with their members while staying true to their culture.
- The key to leading teams through change and keeping communication strong.
Josh brings real insights, fresh ideas, and plenty of experience to the table. Hit play and hear how he’s making an impact on clubs today and shaping the future of CMAA.
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Hey everybody, welcome to the Private Club Radio Show, where we give you the scoop on all things private golf and country clubs from mastering leadership and management, food and beverage excellence, member engagement secrets, board governance and everything in between, all while keeping it fun and light. Whether you're a club veteran just getting your feet wet or somewhere in the middle, you are in the right place. I'm your host, denny Corby. Welcome to the show. In this episode we have a returning guest, good friend of the show, great friend of the industry. We have Josh Paris, who is the GM of Old Town Club, the OTC. You down with OTC, yeah, you know me In Winston-Salem, north Carolina, and I cannot be more excited, despite the fact that I forgot to check my mic input before hitting record. So I am so sorry, my audio is horrendous. It's horrible, but the conversation is fire. Josh and I dive into his journey to the CMAA board and what that means for him in the industry. He is super excited about it. We talk about the massive renovations at his club and how they tackled every aspect of every space within the club with intention. We talk about the future of clubs and how to keep evolving with member needs and why culture and communication should be the top priority of any club leader. Josh always brings the good stuff, and this episode is no exception. He's one of the guys who just gets it. His leadership, his vision, his passion for the industry is second to none, and we are super stoked to have him back on Before we get to the show. Big thanks to some of our show partners Kennis, member Vetting, concert, golf Partners and Golf Life Navigators You're going to hear about them more on the show, as well as myself.
Speaker 1:The Denny Corby experience. There's excitement, there's mystery. Also there's magic. One of the most fun member event nights you will have guaranteed To learn more. Head on over to dennycorbycom. Enough about that, though. Let's get to the episode. Private club radio listeners. Please welcome back. Josh paris, you excited for conference? Yes, very much so. How are you? How are things? Things are good, things are good. Is your wife going to conference too?
Speaker 2:she is, she is, so she's with um. She's been with the rcs team, yeah, now for a couple of years and um, obviously big, big week for them and, uh, she's gearing up for that.
Speaker 1:So it's, it's good, you guys can't wait to get away from the kids uh, yeah, it's a nice.
Speaker 2:it's a nice balance, I think, uh, this this year obviously not a little different, but just a different perspective. Looking forward to all that comes along with it and seeing some familiar faces in person and making new friendships, it's a good time have you been on the board already?
Speaker 2:This is fresh. I'm a newbie, um in this, in this role, so got uh, not too many commitments uh ahead of time, which is which is kind of nice to get enjoy. It's all enjoyable, but I don't have to be certain places at certain times um this year, so that that's nice uh, but no looking for potential one year or three year term. So all those votes and support behind me really will go a long way this year.
Speaker 1:How many positions are available?
Speaker 2:So there's four other individuals, excuse me, there's four total three other individuals and, as I said, there are three three-year terms and one one-year term available.
Speaker 1:Wait, so there's three people running, but four positions available.
Speaker 2:There's four people running.
Speaker 1:And three positions available.
Speaker 2:No, there's four people running four positions available. Three of of those four or three years and one is one year. So I'm in everyone's guaranteed a spot. Everybody's got a spot. It's just how long you're at the, how long you get to sit at the table, uh, but it's you know the historical context on it. It's such a better process for everyone involved. Like, Like when I was coming up in the industry fresh out of college a couple of years, I mean it was full on blowout campaigns the week of conference.
Speaker 2:So I mean you would have oh, pens, banners, every chapter was sponsoring someone, there was a social hour, only hour every hour for like five days and you would have, I think one year kind of maybe changed the whole process. There were like three spots and like eight individuals just all out. So I welcome the change and I think it's just made the process raw. But they kind of kept this voting piece of it to differentiate between the one and the three year. But it was fun. It was fun back then. It was a lot of work. So this is just a couple buttons, a little bit of flair we'll have available for folks just to make sure they know who to throw behind. But I've got everybody that was nominated. They're all great individuals, so just excited to be a part of the process and get the opportunity at the end of the day. Very humbling.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's cool, that's cool. Yeah, I had a chat with Mr James rising too.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's, he's, he's going for it. How's the club doing? Do you finish your renovation?
Speaker 2:We did so. We've got a little bit of cosmetic work, but most all the heavy lifting's been completed, been done. Nice, it's a little area we're focused on right now. We should be concluded and wrapped up with that by early spring late at the longest onset. But everything's up and running and we'll get to just be a club for a year, so it's exciting.
Speaker 1:What didn't you guys do? No, because you did a lot right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we've touched the whole intent behind this project when we started was to touch every phase, every component of the club and try to capture every demographic in some form or fashion that's utilizing.
Speaker 2:And the last piece that we're tying up right now is the ladies' locker room and a couple of water closets and wet areas to kind of freshen that space up. But at the conclusion goodness, at the end of this part we would have probably touched all but one area of the club. And it's been a process. You know it's been an eight-year, seven to eight-year process throughout. You know, a couple years take a year off, and then, of course, covid came in, threw a little things out of whack but also helped refocus kind of our vision and our thoughts behind where we need to go. So it's good, it's exciting. Clubs have to continue to evolve and build and those that aren't it's I mean inward appearance is to me is a reflection of outward appearance. You're just you're. You can be potentially stale and complacent, and club members today are not looking to belong to something that is tired.
Speaker 1:And I think it's a more familial decision. Also, there's a lot more people involved. There's more that they're looking for in terms of the kids and things for everybody. It's not just a place to go and disappear.
Speaker 2:No, it's not. I mean and I think that's kind of where CMA as a whole has done a really good job over the years to create more of a broad spectrum stakeholder involvement. I mean to really encompass there's one, not one single individual that may or may not be a male making the decisions in a club these days, and we've, I think, done a good job educating our peers, educating fellow members, educating our boards to understand that, yes, you're making decisions not for one, but for a whole nucleus of individuals within a household, and that's something different for our industry.
Speaker 1:But I think it just perpetrates sustainability and that's the great thing about it yeah, I was talking to a friend yesterday and saying how you know, a lot of clubs are still riding that high and things are going well. But you know, all things considered, the things that I think are coming back to a more normal in the clubs that got that needed a boost and got that boost but didn't change for the better. Or just saw that I was like, oh, we're good now and you know, just kept doing things the same way, are now going. Oh snap, uh, you know memberships are down again or things are dropping and they didn't. You know they maybe patched the holes and didn't like fully fix them or the cracks and now everything you know they're maybe struggling a little bit too. So it's nice to see when clubs took that boost and who needed it and are doing good things and continue to do good things and uh, yeah, yeah, I mean clubs are, you know, always found.
Speaker 2:they. It should be an, should be viewed as an extension of your home. I mean, that's what I I preach to, to the team, to new members during their orientation, and to be able to do that you have to have a warm and welcoming environment. And activities, activities, activities. We are putting out our little junior social calendar, summer calendar for folks in and around tennis and aquatics, and it's January 16th in and around tennis and aquatics, and it's january 16th. So you know, people are starting to make plans for the summer but want to make sure that the club fits into that, and I think that's a great testament of being a part of something bigger than just a building, an entity you're, you're part of a culture, both you know, inside, inside and outside the walls of this. So that's exciting for everybody too.
Speaker 2:And it's a little bit of change in how you approach your daily business, because you've got your immediate returns what are you doing today? But then it's also how am I forecasting what's coming in? Our job it's always been what can we offer them next? And I think that's the hardest part of being a club professional is what's next, what's inviting and what are they going to want? We need to be able to deliver it, in my opinion, versus them asking for it. You know, it's like here's really what you want and we're we're going to give it to you.
Speaker 1:So it's almost proactive. Yeah, were there any things when you were going through the renovations that the members wanted, that you were maybe like, yeah, like trying to maybe not steer them away, but maybe it wasn't the best use or, you know, was was there? Were there any moments that you, you know, you had to kind of put on like the leadership pants and maybe guide them in a different direction, to a more better decision-making process, whether it's you know something that they wanted, but maybe through like you know your industry, you know friends and stuff you've maybe heard like, oh, like that's maybe not the best course of action, maybe going this route or using this product instead of this, or maybe doing this, this thing first. Was there anything like that when you were going through that whole?
Speaker 2:renovation process.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2:I think the great thing about the association is you have that ability to reach out to colleagues, because nine times out of 10, when you start a project, especially capital, you're usually not the first person trying something and inevitably you're not the last. So with our network and the ability to ask what worked, what didn't work, you're able to impart that in the room, in the decision room. Right, and it's our job's more or less, to just educate and inform our membership what could be perceived as best practices. A great example of that is, you know, looking at certain finishes on walls and paint versus what's more durable, what's going to hold up, what's aesthetically pleasing but, more importantly, what's functional in a high traffic area.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, there's, there's always been some active discussion as to what's going to hold up long term versus what looks, you know, pleasing in the immediate. So that happens all the time. But if you work with good architects but if you work with good architects, good planners, good contractors everybody's collaborating then it's not a difficult decision or conversation to have. Yeah, so that's been my experience. I know there's some horror stories out there, but, knock on wood, I haven't had to experience too many of them. Yes, but it's a learning curve for everybody involved, because, at the end of it, you're just you're trying to provide superior amenities and facilities to complement the experiences that you're offering, and that's what everybody's striving for.
Speaker 1:Have you had to use the staircase of de-escalation recently? You know, actually I did. Have you had to use the staircase of?
Speaker 2:de-escalation. Recently, not now, you know, actually I did. I had a personnel issue over the holidays and it came full circle moment we were able to remove some individuals from a volatile situation and stayed calm. There was a moment that I thought that this opportunity could have gone south real quick. I haven't had too many of those in my career, but this was one that I may or may not have potentially backed myself into. But luckily it didn't come. It didn't go south, as they say, but some of those individuals involved are no longer part of the team.
Speaker 2:But you know, things happen and always during the holiday season you're going to be prevented with something, because everybody is just, they're just on a different level during the holidays, and it's a good thing. But as long as you can be mindful of that as a leader and not once again feed into it, cooler heads tend to prevail. But yes, no, I did have an aha moment where I was like, oh, out. But yes, no, I did have an aha moment where I was like, oh, this is going to go one of two ways. Luckily, it went the right way for some folks.
Speaker 1:Was it the staircase of confrontation? What did you call it?
Speaker 2:Every time.
Speaker 1:I always call it something different.
Speaker 2:Staircase of escalation. Escalating staircase of confrontation. A couple people actually, uh, staircase of escalation, um, escalating staircase of uh, of uh, confrontation, so yeah, yeah, and a couple people actually reference that and they're like oh, that's, that's good stuff. So, um, yeah, don't don't like to put that in practice often, but just know it's there, just know it's yeah people are purposely like starting stuff, just so they can use it yeah, yeah, let's see if this really works um hey, I heard bill said you were ugly and smell bad what?
Speaker 2:no, yeah, yeah, we had a conversation on our team the other day and it is, if I do find it interesting sometimes, when you get into the dynamics of trying to deal with conflict internally with your team and it's mainly team members how folks will internalize the comments that are potentially made or not made and then just take it to levels of understanding where you just look at it and go how did you, how did you come to this conclusion?
Speaker 2:You know, and and within the hospitality industry for for so much time. It's always, I would say, it's wrapped around drama, drama, but there's always these little internal pockets that you're just you're befuddled sometimes when you hear the conversation, that kind of percolate to this seat. But it's important to learn how to diffuse those and, more importantly, try to get folks to talk through them, because a lot of times that's just what it all boils down to is there's been a miscommunication, misunderstanding, and why did we allow this to fester to this point where feelings are hurt? Because that's that's not the intent of anyone. At least, I hope hardly feel that way, do you?
Speaker 1:do you see, is it? Is there a common reason for like? Have you found, like? Have you seen, like, when you really got down to like the like the brass tacks of it, you know, when you had had some of these situations, has it been like there was something else going on? Like they were frustrated over some other stuff? Someone said one thing and then because they were already irritated about maybe it was you know someone cut them off driving there and they were already in like a little bit of like a testy mood. Or because, like, maybe home life stuff, have you found, like, was there any like common maybe source that started it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, my experience has been nine times out of 10, it's something outside the walls of the club that are whether it's home life, work, car trouble, you know, relationship issues, what have you and I've even you know I had a great mentor, chris Borders, longtime DM with Lane Athletic Club, and he always used to tell me he's like, look, if a member is upset nine times out of 10, they're not upset with you, they're upset before they came into the, into the club. You're just the first person that that they saw. And you, you know you got to experience that. There's a, there's a book I'm reading I will butcher the name, but it's the four atonements, I believe it is and one of them is don't take it personally. They send you four little snippets, but the one that really has resonated with me over the holidays with my reading tours don't take things personally, and it kind of speaks to dealing with conflict, dealing with confrontation. Nine times out of 10, it's not you, the individual, that they're upset with, it's an action or a reaction to an action that has happened and you just happen to be there, I think.
Speaker 2:I've also found that. I think that's part of what's wrong with just society in general is everybody takes everything personally these days and that's hard, especially when you're in a club, because you're so emotionally vested in the success, because you as managers, as leaders, you put so much, whether into the physical facility. You know the emotional side of it with developing team members, executing events, organizing, so it's it's hard. But this this book Speaks to that just kind of how to process. But you know, at the end of the day, just don't take it personally, learn from it, but don't don't dwell on it. Life's too short, yeah.
Speaker 1:How have you worked with your team around that? When it's little petty, hurt-feeling stuff, how do you, as a GM, approach it? Do you try to get in early? Do you facilitate? Do you have them to talk it out? How do you approach it when you know that there's some I don't say animosity, but there's some like tension between some team members and everyone knows it's there but just hasn't been hashed out yet?
Speaker 2:uh, nine times out of ten I sit everybody down in the same room and work through, trying to get both, all parties involved, to see the other's perspective, you know, and get to work towards the root, the why of the issue. Because sometimes we can, we can get so involved, so focused on our own operations, our own thoughts, that we just we don't take a moment to think what we are saying can cause someone animosity, disdain. Being can cause someone animosity, disdain. Someone's feelings are hurt and we have to just slow down. And sometimes it's great to have two individuals sit across the table and say, hey look, we're all here for the same reasons. How can we work this out?
Speaker 2:Sometimes you can't, but always try to work from a side of. Let's understand where each person's coming from and hope that we can come with some type of resolution that people will be content with. Not always happy, because, I mean, you know this, the tongue is the sharpest tool you have and it cuts deep sometimes and those heals, those wounds that it can create, take years and years to recover. Some take minutes. But you know, if you can, I've just found success if you're able to talk through it and really try to understand where each person's coming from. Usually you're able to walk out with a general understanding and, hopefully, an acceptance of why we got to this point. Now, the flip side of that is, if it keeps happening and the same person's involved, then you've got to make some changes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because it's just not you, then you've got to make some changes. Yeah, because it's not fair to everybody.
Speaker 2:Have you had to be a member and an employee? Do you handle that the same way I?
Speaker 1:use. I handle it the same way, but I have more individuals involved.
Speaker 2:That's just for just for protocol and making sure. But I've also found peer-to-peer just like we, we peer-to-peer relationships always tend to dissolve an issue better. And especially in a private club environment it's always great to bring in the leaders self-elected leaders, not self-elected but elected leaders of the organization to kind of help diffuse those situations. Meeting, educational meeting this past week is minimum behavior is still, I think one of the I think DGA came out with it was one of the still number one concerns within a club environment right now, even, you know, four years post COVID. So it's still on the topics in the minds of club professionals within within the industry.
Speaker 2:So I've always found when you do have those situations it's best course to get all folks involved, that you can Get all leaders and the organization around the table and see how we can walk through it. But the premise is the same Understand where folks are coming from, what is truly the why and how do we come out with an amicable solution for all parties. But I've had a couple of those in my career, not many, not many. I've been fortunate to work under some really great mentors in some really great environments that luckily I'm not as well versed in that arena, as some of my colleagues. So, yeah, interesting, yeah, that's important.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, cause it probably would take a special manager to be in charge of a club that might be more prone or has more I don't even know how to phrase it, I don't even know how to say the word the environment's maybe a little bit more. I keep saying the word testy, but not testy, but more prone to not great behavior. So to be able to be in that position and do it well and handle it, that takes a certain personality, a certain manager. So, yeah, interesting, I never thought about that.
Speaker 2:It does, and I'll say that where our industry has evolved. To those listening if you find yourself at that type of environment, you need to find a way out because it's not healthy and it speaks to the culture of the organization and the club. And as much as we my opinion is as well as much as we try to dictate culture of the club some things are there, just won't change and you can find yourself in an environment that you know not only can hurt people you care about and hurt yourself. There can be unattended consequences for being in that. So my advice is sorry, sorry, no, I'll just say if you find yourself in that environment and it becomes the norm and not the exception, change, change your outlook.
Speaker 1:You think some people stay longer because they think that they can change them, almost like you know that that that boyfriend or girlfriend is with them. Like I can make them better, I can do this. Like they're like no, I, I can change this club give me. And then next thing they know it's been eight years and they're just running in circles now, yeah, no I think at the heart of it it's the, it's the entrepreneurial, competitive spirit within club professionals.
Speaker 2:I can fix this, I've got this and there's some of that in everything that we do. But there has to be a point where you got to say, if you can't change the people, change the people, got to say, is, if you can't change the people, change the people. And you, as the individual leading that organization, as much as you're trying to help, it could be part of the opportunity there that's not allowing it to change. I always think managers come in and it's like I can fix all these problems. A lot of times you can, a lot of times that you can't. You're taught how to do this. There's great education behind it. There's great resources, whether they're textbook, webinars, just fellow colleagues Because, as I said, we've all in some form or fashion, we've all dealt with the same issues that are wrapped around the club and especially behavioral issues.
Speaker 2:So we've got so many outlets of folks to just reach out to and ask. And that's the great thing about what we do and who we represent is the networking is by far the best in any association that I've, that I've seen and read about and I think that's what really really speaks to it. Sean, sean Blau was with me this this past weekend and he was like it's the vibe man, it's the vibe so the word for 2024 and 2025.
Speaker 1:The vibe.
Speaker 2:The vibe. The vibe Either have it or you don't. You can't fake that part.
Speaker 1:Why should people vote for you for the board spot?
Speaker 2:Why should people vote for me? Well, one, I am one of you. I literally started as a student, so I am the epitome of what the association is from the grassroots. So I started as a student, have really moved up through the chapter representation. I'm fortunate to serve in two chapters my home chapter of the Carolinas and then my secondary home, the Georgia chapter, and then the national level.
Speaker 2:That really got to meet folks like yourself and really form relationships. I mean, we're just coming on to our year anniversary of when you and I met. So to see it come this far, I think just really speaks to it and the love and the passion I have to continue to to grow this wonderful organization Just topped 8100 members. So it is, it's great and it's an exciting time. We're years away from our centennial. It's growing and it's an exciting time we're years away from our centennial. But I think you know, at the heart of it is I have the best interest in, in everybody who is a member, a partner within the association, and together we could, we can do more and that's the most exciting thing. And really we're led by some of the best professionals uh, with jeff morgan and his team and and just to be able to work alongside them is, you know, pretty, pretty exciting uh for me. But yeah, no, no motives here, just just happy to to get the opportunity. I like that.
Speaker 1:I like that.
Speaker 2:Thanks for coming back on. Hey, thanks, thanks for having me. It's always, it's always fun you have. I was lamenting with Sean, I was telling about I've got a session, and then just not a shameless plug, but a real plug. What you've been able to do for this space has truly been remarkable, and to see how much it's grown just my perception how much it's grown in the caliber of folks and the guests that you bring on and the various topics. You know you're doing something special, so keep it up. I appreciate that.
Speaker 1:No, it's. And then, and you know, to go back to you talking about the association and the group of people and just the type of people I mean, I'm just a guy who does a silly, you know, magic, mind reading and comedy show for clubs and just ended up sticking with it in this little niche of niches and built amazing relationships and friendships and in club managers and, and you know, vendors, suppliers, industry partners, whatever you want to call them, members as well. Um, you know, it's, it's, it's uh, being welcomed and you know the, the stories I've been able to share and connect with and, you know, put out there have been amazing as well. So it's's been, it's been a very, very fun, fun journey. So appreciate that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the vibe is real on that side and and I said it's just, it's just great because you've been able to incorporate multiple generations, folks that normally wouldn't probably find themselves behind the screen or or a mic, and you've got such a huge, I think, your followings. It's got to be all time high at this point and it's only going to continue to grow because, as I said, we're 8,100 members, so you've got 81, excuse me, 8,099 more episodes to do right, Because I'm the. I'm one of the 8,099 more episodes to do right Because I'm one of the 8,100. But the material that you have at your disposal is endless Because it's relative and relevant. Excuse me, to what we are about, and I think you kind of embody that with your program and your cast. So, just excited to be a two-timer. Are you going to get coats for folks like Saturday Night Live? Maybe We've got to set some benchmarks here.
Speaker 2:Not a bad idea actually Two-timers club right here, starting it.
Speaker 1:Two twos.
Speaker 2:Two, twos, just two, twos, uh, but I do, I I do appreciate in our friendship, but more or less, what you're, what you're doing for the, for the group of colleagues of mine in the group. So so, thank you, appreciate you, sir.
Speaker 1:Josh, thank you so much for coming back on the show. Look forward to seeing you at conference very, very soon. Good luck on the elections. That's this episode. Until next time, catch y'all on the Flippity Flip.
