Private Club Radio Show
Welcome to the Private Club Radio Show, the industry's weekly source for education, news, trends, and other current developments in the world of private clubs.
Hosted by the talented entertainer and industry expert, Denny Corby,
the podcast offers a unique perspective on the private club industry, featuring expert guests, product spotlights, predictions, and more.
Whether you're involved in a golf club management, yacht clubs, athletic clubs, or business clubs, the Private Club Radio Show is the essential podcast for
anyone seeking valuable insights and information on the latest trends and developments in the private club industry.
Private Club Radio Show
425: Building Successful Clubs Through Emotional Intelligence w/ Geoff Piva, CCM
This episode focuses on how emotional intelligence can redefine leadership within club management. Geoff Piva shares his personal journey and insights on navigating crises, the importance of mentorship, maintaining work-life balance, and leading with empathy.
• Exploring the role of emotional intelligence in club management
• Lessons learned during the COVID-19 crisis
• Transforming Needham Golf Club through innovation and member engagement
• The impact of mentorship on professional growth
• Finding work-life balance in a demanding environment
• Emphasizing the importance of empathy and communication in leadership
• Adopting stoicism to guide leadership practices
Geoff Piva encourages listeners to strive for 1% improvement every day in their personal and professional lives.
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Hey everybody, welcome to the Private Club Radio Show, where we give you the scoop on all things private golf and country clubs From mastering, leadership and management, food and beverage excellence, member engagement secrets, board governance and everything in between, all while keeping it fun and light. Whether you're a club veteran just getting your feet wet or somewhere in the middle, you are in the right place. I'm your host, denny Corby. Welcome to the show. In this episode I am chatting with a very good human, a very good friend of myself of the industry. He's a club manager and a podcast host himself Jeffrey Piva Joffrey, as I like to call him, joffrey, but we have Jeff Piva. Joffrey, as I like to call him, joffrey, but we have Jeff Piva. It cannot be more excited to have him on.
Speaker 1:He is the host of his own podcast, the Club Manager's Journal, where he dives into what it's like the day-to-day of being a club manager. Highly recommend you check it out. But, as you know, being a club leader just isn't about F&B numbers or tournament schedules. It's about understanding people, your members, your team, your board. And Jeff has made emotional intelligence his secret weapon at Needham Golf Club and in this episode he shares how it's changed, the way he has led Now. He didn't have a traditional path into club management. He started caddying at 12, worked his way through the golf shop tournament sales operations and eventually stepped into leadership. Now he's using everything he learned along the way to create a culture where both members and staff feel truly valued. So in the episode we dive into how EQ changes the way club managers build relationships. Episode we dive into how EQ changes the way club managers build relationships. We talk about lessons from crisis management, because running a club during COVID was a whole different ballgame. How he took Needham Golf Club from a struggling dining club to a thriving, golf-focused private club. And we also talk about the power of mentorship and why club managers should always be learning from each other.
Speaker 1:This is a fantastic episode. Cannot wait to dive in. I am stoked to have Jeff on. Before we do, a quick thank you to some of our show partners. We have our friends, members First, concert Golf Partners and Kenneth's Member Vetting, as well as myself. Denny Corby, the Denny Corby Experience. There's excitement, there's mystery. Also there's magic, mind reading and comedy. One of the most fun, engaging and interactive evenings your club can have guaranteed. Check it out, denny Corby dot com. But enough about that, let's get to the episode. Private Club Radio. Give a big warm welcome To Jeff Piva. How long does your club close for?
Speaker 2:So we usually close right before Christmas and we reopened the first week of March, so it's really January and February.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's not too bad.
Speaker 2:Next year we're going to be open all year. I think Really we're going to get two simulators for the function room. Put the simulators in right in the middle of December and let everybody go to town until middle March, and then, and then, and then we'll have the, then we'll have the grow room open.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and now is that what the members wanted? Like, is that like what? What consensus was kind of going for.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they want it, and I have to figure out how to pay for it all. That's my job, but they want it, they, they want it, it, and I think we didn't have that demand a few years ago, but now we do. So now people are now. People are like well, when are we going to be open? When are we going to be open? And it's like it's not that easy. It's not just like flipping a switch and being open, like we shut the entire place down, so it's like the kitchen is shut off, like there's no food in the building, Like it's. It's that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like that's what you do when you shut down for 75 days. You have to take everything out deep clean. Everything's deep cleaned. You have to do all those things. So if you stay open, you can't do that. You have to stay open and you have to constantly be moving. All the people that are hourly are furloughed. This happens every year. They collect unemployment for a couple months and then they come back in March and in March we're really only open a few nights a week and then we do functions. So, yeah, there's a lot to stay open. There's a lot of stuff to do and a lot of ways to. You know a lot of things we'd have to change with the way we're set up, and having simulators would just have people. It'll just be a factory here. People will be here all day. 85 of my members live within a mile of the club. A mile, yeah, wow yeah, that's pretty cool.
Speaker 2:Crazy, it's crazy, yeah.
Speaker 1:So they're here all the time now, during the year did, did the need and want for this like do the other local clubs? You said what you have like 10 other clubs that are also close by, do they also have that and do that and the members know and hear about it. So that's why they're like well, we want that at our club too yeah, that's, that's that's how.
Speaker 2:That's how it goes, right. I mean, they go, they go somewhere else and they see the setup and they go. Oh, that would be great to have at our club. Now we're a smaller club but you know, they'll go to like a club and they'll be open all year and they'll have sims and they'll have tennis, indoor tennis and a campus. But they see it, and most of the clubs have simulators at this point, one or two, and I'm going to get two. Put them in the middle of the function room and then just set the function room up to be basically a range.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, what's that going to cost about?
Speaker 2:So the, the Sims are like 65,000 each if you buy them for the for all in, for all, the, all the software, all the, the, the whole thing, nuts to bolts 65 K. So you're talking one, 30 and you know you can charge for it, but like, you still got to front the money, you know, and that's, that's the trick, right. And then the grill room, you know being open again, if you're running your club properly, you're not making money, it's an amenity. So you're just, you're just, you're there. So if it costs a million to run the place, it's it's. You're making a million, it's zero. So the food and beverage doesn't count. You're making a million, it's zero. Yeah, so the food and beverage doesn't count, it's. It's more like, how do we, how do we break even with the sims and provide this experience for people to be able to be there? Yeah, that's, that's the plan and then what?
Speaker 1:instead go ahead, sorry yeah, that's.
Speaker 2:There's such a demand now that, like I, I need to do something. So, like people are like, like people are coming in dropping their dues off. That's typically what happens this time of year. When are we going to be open all year? When are we going to be open all year? Because they want it, they want to be here, yeah, which is a good problem to have do you think they will?
Speaker 1:they would all show up, though. Do you think they would? They would use the club enough to make it worth it enough, would you know I got.
Speaker 2:I have a whole bunch of people that go to flor, which is obvious, right, everybody has that. But there's enough people that live here, enough younger members our age that are here with kids that just want to get the hell out of the house. So they're going to come here and hit balls and have a couple beers and go home Perfect, right. So there's enough people that will do that. That. I think we can support it. A couple years ago I wouldn't have said that. Now I do.
Speaker 1:What would you do with the simulators once the weather gets nice, because you obviously need the room?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that's the trick storing everything and taking it down. I'm probably going to have to build some kind of shed somewhere off to the side and put everything in there, because we're bursting at the seams. The building is just bursting at the seams. They built this building in 2011 with 300 members. Now we have 700. Same building, yeah, same footprint, same building. So we're bursting at the seams and if I start adding things like this, it's like what do I do with it? Storage is full. So, yeah, I'd probably have to just build a shed, take it down, probably March 20th, and then, you know, get into it. We usually open April 1 or around April 1, the golf course. So once the golf course is open, then no Sims, you know, but that that gets you three, three full months of Sims, quarter of the year.
Speaker 1:It's good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just about breaking even. We're not in the business of making money, we're in the business of experiences.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which I'm sure you can easily get that too. Between parties groups, people having fun, yeah.
Speaker 2:There's lots of things we can do. And then with the grill room open in the winter, I mean I can do a winter wine dinner. I can do Valentine's Day. Valentine's Day is a home run easy. You do three seatings, prefix menu simple. I'll fill the place three times. That's easy. But there's lots of other things you can do throughout the winter, even with just the grow room open and not having functions. You know, because you can't do functions if you've got the Sims in the middle of the function room.
Speaker 1:It'd be a killer event.
Speaker 2:Wouldn't it? I'd love to do a bar mitzvah with the Sims in the middle of the room and see what happens. How long do they take to set up? So he so. So the guy from track man told me it's a full day to set it up and then probably half a day to take it down. Because it's not just setting it up. You have to, you have to configure the machine, you have to configure the, you have to calibrate the p, the pc. You have to. You have to get the cameras up. You, you got to test it there's. It's a lot more to set it up than it is to take it down, but, um, probably a full day for two.
Speaker 1:Would you be able to upsell that for events like can you because I'm sure there's kids who like I'm like what? Would that be an option? Or no, to upsell it, to use it for different stuff?
Speaker 2:well, I? I think that depends on how much of a demand. Is there a demand to the point where the members are using it all day, every day? Or is there open times to be able to upsell it? See, these are questions that you just don't know. When you create something new, you just throw it at the wall and see what sticks and just do the best you can.
Speaker 2:We're building a snack shack this winter in the building, right off the ninth hole, where people can come up, and it's going to be staffed and the whole thing. I don't even know how that's going to go. It's going to do it and see what happens. When's it going to be open? I'm going to open it at night and have it act as a bar. Then I'm going to get a pizza oven and sling pizzas down there. Home run right. But what's that going to look like? Am I going to have 100 people down there or am I going to have 20? Nobody knows. So you just try. If you don't try, you're never going to know and you've got to take calculated risks where you can. So that's what I'm doing, yeah.
Speaker 1:Were you always in the club space? Did you see yourself in this industry? Did you just like how? What was your journey like?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I had unlike a lot of the club managers that are like F&B background. I had a totally different journey, so I started caddying when I was 12 at a club. Yeah, I was 12.
Speaker 1:Was that even legal?
Speaker 2:No, no, no, yeah. And then I was driving. Then I was driving the range car when I was 13. So, no, not legal, but I started caddying when I was 12 at a club and and, um, you know, got to, you know, got in the club space and started to you know, figure out like this is something I really enjoy and something I like to do. Hadn't even started playing golf yet and was playing baseball, and then got the golf bug by being at the club and started playing golf and I kept working at the club through high school, started working on the range, picking balls, working in the bag room and then eventually in the pro shop. As this was happening, I was also starting to play golf. The golf professional that was there at the time was left-handed and I'm left-handed, so he was like he kind of took me under his wing a little bit and said, hey, I'm going to show you, you know kind of how to play and everything. Eventually it got to the point where I made the high school team. We started to get good and senior year of high school we made it to the state championship and then I started to get looked at from colleges and that kind of thing. So I ended up going to.
Speaker 2:I ended up going to Salem state just North of Boston. Good, great division three school, you know, made the nationals 30 years in a row, so like it was a. It was a good program to walk into. When I got there I realized I didn't even really know how to play golf. Like I had to relearn how to play golf and play at a high level, right, and these guys like when I got there, there was five, all Americans on that team. So we were, we were really really good and I really learned a lot about how to play.
Speaker 2:So when I got to college I was like, well, I need a job, so let me go find a club to work at, since I just worked at a club for five years. So I went in. One of the clubs that we practiced at was looking for people for outside you know, just outside ops, that kind of thing. So I went to work there and I ended up spending the next eight years there, so all through college and then coming out of college and stayed there and ran the whole outside operation towards the end there and, uh, ended up as the first assistant at the at the end. So end.
Speaker 2:So this was a club that was super, super busy. We did a ton of outings. It was a factory. I mean, we were just. I learned it was all on the job training. I just learned about how to operate the golf side of a club.
Speaker 2:So then it got to the point where I maxed out there and I went to work for one of the members at a gift and award company called Tournament Solutions, kind of well-known in our industry. They do like trophies, pin flags, things like that. So what it did was it got me to learn the sales side of the business. I was still talking to golf professionals, gms, but I was on the sales side of it. Eventually we got licenses with the PGA and the USGA and you know I was on site at the Ryder cups and the U S opens and I worked there for 10 years, so really spent a long time there, built that book of business up substantially. We had a. We had a great run there.
Speaker 2:Um, towards the end there I started to get the itch to get back into clubs Because I was like now I've done this, I've done this, what can I do? So I was thinking maybe I could be a GM, but the one piece that was missing was food and beverage. So I knew it a little bit, but I didn't know enough. So I made a real strategic move I left Tournament Solutions as the assistant manager and I took a pay cut and everything also that I could learn F and B. How old were you? 30, 33, 34. That's not a good time to do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're, you're, you're just old enough, just young enough, like that's, that's, that's still, a, still, a still a move.
Speaker 2:I had an infant, so I had a one-year-old, so it was a risk, but it was also like I kind of had a vision of like, if I can do this and I can do this right, I'm going to end up potentially getting into the GM space. So I got there and I immediately joined CMAA, right, because I knew what the path was. I knew I needed six years to get my CCM. So I knew that time was needed and I needed to learn right. So I got there and this was a fine dining club, so like a five-star club. It's called Lanham Club in Andover, massachusetts. So I got there and I right away got thrown into weddings and fine dining and, like you know, the correct silverware and wine, dinners and like all this stuff. So it was great Cause it was like on the job, training and the GM that was, there, was, was, was unbelievable, like he was. He took kind of took me under his wing and said, look, this is what you need to learn, this is what you need to do. Then, kind of a quick twist of fate, six months into me being there, he got another job and left. So he leaves and they promoted me and I probably wasn't ready, but that's okay.
Speaker 2:I fell into it and it was a small enough club that I was able to, you know, kind of deal with it and learn and continue to learn on the fly. And I made a ton of mistakes, a ton of mistakes, but I learned from them. Well, I think my people skills were not, were not there. I needed to learn how to. I needed to learn how to talk to people better, specifically staff. Uh, that was like how, just how to manage people a little bit better and lead and lead versus manage. Um, and you know, I had to learn more about wine. I had to learn more about food. I mean, we had some unbelievable chefs come through there. So that was great, it was helpful. But, um, I think I needed to learn how to have an executive presence and that wasn't something that I was used to doing, and part of that was through the BMIs too. I mean, as this is all going on, I'm going to BMIs and I'm going to CMA meetings. I got on the New England board, I was starting to get to know people and this was all on the job training. It was great and by I would say, let me see, 15, I was probably like six years into I think it was six years into being there COVID. So now you're a dining club, you have no golf, you have no pool, you have no tennis and COVID happens. So you're shut, you're completely shut down. So I kind of got a PhD in crisis management because I had to figure out how to like operate the club with no dining and our membership was older. So then they were more reluctant to come out, even when we did reopen.
Speaker 2:So you know, we, we ran a, we ran a program right when we right when we, right when COVID happened. So, like April one, really we started a, we started a program that we called the Lanham fresh. So what we did was we, we we had like three or four different meals that each week we would. We would have the ingredients packaged up and uncooked for the members to take home with the chef's recipe. Yeah, and then what I would do is each week we would film a video in the kitchen with the chef, with the chef showing the members how to cook it Right. And that was I was just trying to get creative Right. I mean, like we were all just doing the best we could to, like you know, keep things going and um, and that went on for a couple of months and then we reopened and, and you know, did outside dining for a while and it was hard.
Speaker 2:So at that point I was like dining for a while and it was hard. So at that point I was like I think I'm starting to outgrow this club and I think it's now I'm starting to get the golf itch back. I want to play, I want to get back into golf, that kind of piece. So I started looking at other jobs and I started to look around and you know long roundabout route but I ended up here at Needham in 21, at the end of 21. And this couldn't be a better fit for me.
Speaker 2:With everything that I've learned along the way and everything that I've done over the different clubs I've been at and the different experiences I've had. Ultimately it's led me to this club. It's led me to this club. It's a nine-hole member, private-owned, really small but with a great membership, long-serving staff. I integrated myself really well and I took all the mistakes I've made and all the things that I've learned along the way and brought them here and we've seen huge transformation. Our wait list is blown up and and I mean just really really good stuff.
Speaker 2:And I also would say too, um, a big part of what, um, a big part of my journey also happened, um, in 2022. And I'll explain that. So I had gotten here, um, kind of gotten myself settled and everything, and another club manager friend of mine, um, who, uh, worked on Cape Cod uh, we were talking you know we don't see each other a lot in the summer, but you know like we talk all the time and, um, he was on a similar path that I was in his personal life and and in his career, uh, so we talked, we chatted all the time and and we were talking about, you know, helping others. We spent a lot of time talking about helping others and about kind of getting out there potentially speaking, doing these types of things and helping other people. So this is at the end of 22,.
Speaker 2:We, we were, um, you know, we were chatting about, you know kind of getting a dinner together and talking to some other managers and talking about how we could do this. This was on a Friday and um had a great conversation and and maybe about an hour, and then he texted me after and, um, and then two days later he's dead, 47 years old heart attack. What yeah? Same age as me, so as me or give or take a couple years that'll mess you up yeah, I, I still can't.
Speaker 2:I look at it sometimes that the text he sent me that that day was so powerful that I still go back and read it because I can't not look at it. Um, and I, I was. I was really like I've never been so like upset about anything. I mean, I've had, you know, I've had family, you know issues and past. People pass away and that kind of thing. But this hit different for some reason, and it was really because he was so much like me and we were really thinking about the same things. And to see him just pass away, I was like what am I going to do? I got to make some changes, because if I don't make those changes, I'm going to end up like that.
Speaker 2:I went to the wake with a bunch of other manager friends and we get up to the. It was an open casket. And you get up to the wake and you know, with a bunch of other manager friends and we get up to the it was an open casket. And you get up to the open casket and he had a shaved head, like I do. And I went up to the casket and I looked in the casket and I saw myself in the casket and I can't. It's burned in my memory and I drove home that day and I was like I have to make some changes the amount that I'm working, the amount that I care, the amount of time I spend with my family, the, just the, the, the awareness of what's really important versus what isn't.
Speaker 2:So I started making some changes. I joined the 5 am club. As a lot of people know, you get up early and you start your day with intention and when you do that, you set yourself up for the rest of the day to be successful. So I started doing that. I started doing a lot of reading, which I had never done before Tons of podcasts Just started really focusing on what was important and what wasn't important.
Speaker 2:It changed the way that I led my staff.
Speaker 2:It changed the way that I led myself and the way I communicated, and it's been a journey over the last three years.
Speaker 2:And it's been a journey over the last like three years and it's gotten progressively better and eventually led me to saying, hey, I really want to, um, I really want to help other people and I really want to share what I've learned with other people, because I know that a lot of other managers are in the same boat that I am, and especially men don't want to talk about it and they feel uncomfortable to talk about it. And I don't. I don't feel uncomfortable, I want to help other people. I feel like I have a purpose to help other people and that was what eventually led me to my own podcast, which I launched last year, and what I'm doing in that is basically doing an uncensored, unfiltered view of what I deal with in a short burst of 10 or 15 minutes so that people can listen to it on the way to work and people can absorb, maybe, what I've learned and hopefully not make the mistakes that I've learned.
Speaker 1:Damn.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a lot of stuff. So it's, it's, it's been a, it's been a real and it's it's interesting because every every time I see friends and managers at um, you know, at a meeting or conference or whatever you know they, I know that people are listening because they they intentionally will come up to me and go, hey, thanks for doing what you're doing, because there isn't anybody else in that in the space doing that. Yeah, there's a lot of people talking about a lot of things. I mean, you have people on all the time that are way more intelligent than I am, that have tons of experience about certain areas. You know of the club business and the business aspect of it, but I don't think a lot of people are talking about how we deal with being managers and how much pressure is on us, not just as managers but as parents, spouses, whatever it might be. We're just doing the best we can every day, and it's a lot of stress to be at a club, but it's also your choice to be stressed. That's what I've learned. Like you know, you hear you have a conversation with a manager and how's it going. Oh, it's so hard. It's been such a tough year. You know we had to do this. We had to do that. That's your choice, though, right, you have to set boundaries with your membership and you have to be. You have to be okay with the fact that you're not going to get everything done.
Speaker 2:Great example when I interviewed at Needham. I had a bunch of interviews and by the last interview I basically said to them I said, guys, I'm really interested in the job, but I want to tell you that you're not going to see me on Sundays. And they were like, well, how come? And I said well, I have two young kids and that's more important to me than being here on a Sunday. Now, of course, there's exceptions big holidays or whatever it might be but in general, I'm not here on Sundays.
Speaker 2:So I set that boundary right when I started here and it hasn't changed. It's not going to waver. It's like don't work on Sundays. I'm with my kids on Sundays, and I think people can say that they're stressed at their job. But it's also up to you. I mean, ultimately, you can only control you and not others, and it's your choice to find a club that serves you versus you serving the club. You're going to serve the club. The club also has to serve you in return, and when you're at the right club, you figure out. You figure out that, like hey, this club is serving me just as much as I'm serving it, and if you're not, then then you're, then you're at the wrong club.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, wow, thanks for sharing all of that. Yeah yeah, no, I, I don't know if it's always been a thing or maybe I'm just realizing it more from chatting with so many professionals too, but to that point it's. You know, managers are going. Nah, this is not for me. I think I'm out where I'm going to find a club that is and also like interviewing them as much as they're interviewing you, because you can, through proper questions, figure out if, you know, is a club putting on a good front, because that happens too, just like managers and people can put on great interviews and they get in.
Speaker 1:They're like who did we hire? I'm sure there's clubs that put on a great front to go, ah, we're all the, you know we're the best, and you get in. They're like you guys talked a great game. But I was chatting with another GM friend and, uh, you know she, uh, the club that she enjoys is she likes to be hands-on, she likes to be part of the event, she likes to set up the table, she likes knowing and being a part, getting her hands dirty, and she was at a club that she didn't have that and she just didn't have the same fulfillment and the same joy as a club that she's at now, where she gets to do more of that and be hands-on and be more of those. Be be more of that manager. So yeah I.
Speaker 2:I think that I think that comes back to again finding finding a club that's going to serve you. Yeah, um, so, like, how is that club set up and is that setup going to work for you? You know, so, like I'm I'm a golf professional just as much as the gm, so I want to be able to play golf and I'm at a club that allows that to happen, that there's no questions asked, in fact GM. So I want to be able to play golf and I'm at a club that allows that to happen, that there's no questions asked. In fact, they love it, they want to see me out on the golf course, so that's a good thing. That means I'm at the right place. And you're totally correct about interviewing a club just as much as a club interviewing you. More managers would be right to do that.
Speaker 2:Our average tenure GM's average tenure, I think, is like three years, which is unbelievable to me, because it isn't until year three that you actually know what's going on. It takes you that long to really know the members, to know the culture, to become ingrained in it, and then you're turning around and leaving. It's like that's wild to me. Why would you waste all that time to then turn around and go to another club, but unfortunately that's what people do, or clubs decide oh, you haven't done enough in a year, so you're out. And again it's all about setting boundaries. You got to tell the club right away. This is going to take three years for you to see results. You have to be okay with that and you have to be confident enough to be able to have that conversation with your board or your president, whatever it might be. I've been lucky enough to be blessed with two great presidents so far that I've been here with more on the horizon, because I've set up the governance to serve me just as much as I'm going to serve them.
Speaker 1:Rigging the system over here.
Speaker 2:You know well, that is the system Like if you have the ability to be able to set up your board, for you know, 10 years out, then you're going to be at your club for a long time and ultimately you're trying to do what's best for the club, but you're also trying to make sure that people understand that you know I have to have a life outside of the club and I have to also be able to um, I need, I need to be able to be my best self when I'm at the club. In order for me to do that, this is what I need from from you, right, and to be able to go from there. Um, part of the journey that I've been on, too, has been um, you know too, has been a lot of reading, a lot of different things. But I have found, over the last three years, stoicism and, for the people that might not know, stoicism is an ancient philosophy, a 2,000-year-old philosophy that's been popularized over the last 10, 15 years, mostly by Ryan Holiday, who wrote the Daily Stoic and Obstacles the Way and other books like that.
Speaker 2:But the gist of stoicism is you can only control you, you cannot control others, and that is a model that, frankly, works really really well for me, so I know it will work for other managers. The four stoic philosophies are wisdom, courage, justice and temperance, and if you apply those four things to everything you do in life, you are, you are going to be um, you are going to be a really really good manager. So I've tried to use that, that stoicism, as a um yeah, you know as like kind of a guiding light for the type of manager I want to be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, have you read his book. Trust me, I'm lying.
Speaker 2:That's before the Stoic books. I think yeah, I actually haven't read that one, but I've heard it's great.
Speaker 1:That's just crazy stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's a great writer, but also just a great communicator, and it's something that I can listen to every day and something that I can really own and be part of, and it's made me a better person. Yeah, and it's been part of the journey of getting up in the morning and journaling, and journaling and and getting my thoughts out so that I can have a clean day, and it's made me a better person.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. This went a lot different than I thought in a much better way.
Speaker 2:And that's what's great. That's what's great about this stuff, right? Yeah, I mean, that's what it is. You know conversation and you talk through someone's journey and you never know where it's going to go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I know it's your journal or your podcast, the club manager's journal. But I think I was surprised, just even how much you opened up, because I think everyone will go oh yeah, or it's whatever. You, I think I was surprised, just even like how much you opened up, because I think everyone will go like oh yeah, you know, or like it's, it's whatever. If you're like yeah, but like you really opened up, like you really get into, you get into stuff.
Speaker 2:I don't think a lot of managers are doing it, or or don't have the to take it back to a stoic virtue. They don't have the courage to do it. Courage is calling.
Speaker 1:Great, great book yeah right.
Speaker 2:Well, exactly Whatever it is it might be, oh, I'm afraid of opening up because I don't want to lose my job, or I'm afraid of what people are going to think, or I'm afraid of my reputation, or whatever it might be, and that doesn't matter. What only matters is how you feel about yourself and about how you respond to things that happen around you. That can be with a member, that can be with a staff member, that can be with your family, it doesn't matter. With your family, it doesn't matter. But controlling your own responses and being um stoic in nature, um is really powerful.
Speaker 2:I've I've found that. I've also found that in the past, some of the mistakes I made, like talking too much at the wrong times, um, you know, saying too much when, when saying nothing, is more powerful. Really interesting how that dynamic has changed in my life and just made me a better leader to the people that are here, and I think people notice it even in the time that I've been here. But also, definitely, family members and people I've known for a long time have seen the difference, and I credit that to some of the things that have happened in my life, but also, um, the work I've done to to become a better person.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's hard to not talk Like it is. It's it. I've. I've found myself a little bit too like certain scenario, situations like I'm just gonna sit here, um, and I feel really bad now for myself because as I look across so I'm in my studio, I, I can look out into my like man cave, corby enterprises uh, I could see my uh daily stoic book and I can see the little ribbon because I don't read it daily and I know it's far from so. I can see it's like oh, I've not opened up that in a while, and now it's like, it's like looking at me, it's like open me, I've not opened up that in a while, and now it's like, it's like looking at me, it's like open me now, Like it can hear this conversation happening.
Speaker 2:Right, right, right, right, yeah, you, you, um, you got to read it every day. That's the whole point and it's a little snippet every day and it's a you know it's. I typically will write something down in my, in my own journal every day that I get from either that or something else. I'm trying to read other things too. This time of year, in January, a great book for managers to read, if they haven't, is Atomic Habits by James Clear, a wonderful book that I reread every January to remind myself that habits can be good and bad, but habits can also guide you and make you, make you a better person if you, if you, follow the good ones. So you know, that's another one too. But yeah, I mean, I think, you know, I think there's. It takes a lot of courage to kind of open up and be, you know, be a person that wants to help people. I think we're all servant leaders in some way, but I'm I'm trying to just take my knowledge of what I've learned in the club space and pass it along to other managers and I'm not talking just younger managers, I'm talking about people that are contemporaries of mine too. I mean, those are the people that call me more than anybody else, they'll be like what you're saying I deal with every day and I'm like I know you do. That's why I'm doing this. I'm doing this because I'm trying to help people that are like me, that I know are in the same boat as me.
Speaker 2:I'd say it's probably more to the I hate to say this because it's for everybody, but it's definitely some of the male managers that struggle with the amount of responsibility that they have in life, their club, their home, the finances, everything right. There's just a lot on us and there's not a lot of place to talk about it. And club managers are really unique. We're very, very unique in what we do and there's not a lot of people that understand what we do.
Speaker 2:I mean, you can go home and you can complain to your spouse about you know what happened at the club today, but they don't know. They don't know, like they don't know what it's like to have to be on all the time. Another manager knows what it's like to be on all the time. So when someone calls me and says I'm, I'm exhausted, it's, you know, labor day and the pool's been open for 100 days and I want to kill someone, and it's like, yeah, I get it, I understand, I've been there, so it's so. So sometimes people just want to feel heard and understood. In fact, more often than not, people just want to feel heard and understood, and managers typically don't have an outlet for that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's hard yeah, I even think about the being on part because I know it's, it's, it's. If I do like you know I do a full day event. You know, if I'm on all day, I'm like at the end I'm cooked, done, right, done. I just got off doing three days and I was like, oh, yesterday I was. If you saw me in the airport, I looked like the unabomber, all black, like rbf, beyond belief, like, and normally I'll like be chatty, like the woman next to me was just so chatty that I just like I felt really rude. But I just slowly put in my airpods and put my hood up. I was like I'm so done, like I, I can't, I can't, I can't. And it was 8am or 6am. She's already ordering like a bucket club. I was like I'm done, I can't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you just, I mean, I mean you, you're in a situation where you have to be on when you're at a club, like when you're there and you're performing and you're doing your thing, you're on, so you can understand what it's like to feel exhausted at the end of the day. I mean, if you're, if you're at, if you're running your member guest, and it's three days and you're on for three days straight, by by Sunday you're, you're done, you're cooked, and then you come home and your kids haven't seen you for three days and they want to do something and you're fried, and then you feel guilty that you didn't do anything with your kids because you're fried. But then or then you try to do something with your kids and it doesn't go as well. This is the, this is the rabbit hole you go down and sometimes you just need someone to talk to or someone else that like is saying I understand you, yeah, and there isn't a lot. There isn't a lot of that for managers.
Speaker 2:I was recently on the national CMAA podcast with Melissa Lowe and Kyle Jennings and they're wonderful, and I explained to them kind of the same thing. I'm like there's a lot of people talking about a lot of stuff, but not about like what it's really like to be a manager and those tough times where you're just burnt out, you know, at the end of the season or at the end of a big tournament or at the end of an event or whatever. Um, you know, other people don't know what that feels like unless you've been in the seat of running a whole event or running a club. You just don't know.
Speaker 1:So have you started doing therapy, coaching, like what? What have you taken some of those other steps to? I don't want to say alleviate, I don't know what word I'm trying to say but like, have you taken to other other steps to help that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have a whole team of people helping me. Like, like you, like you need help, right, you just can't like. For for so many years I I said. I said, no, I'm not doing that, I can do it by myself, I'm fine, I'm good, I'm good. I'm good Because that's what a lot of people say. But after my friend passed away and after all these things kind of happened in succession, I said I need help. So I have a coach, I have a therapist, I do these things religiously because they help and I feel heard. So then I can be a better version of myself. When I then go back to the club or go home or whatever it might be, I can talk to my kids more empathetically, I can talk to my staff more empathetically. I can do things that I couldn't do before because of the help that I went and got. Therapists and coaches are two different things.
Speaker 1:I was going to ask how do you differentiate and what's the difference between your coach and your therapist, and what do each of them help accomplish?
Speaker 2:It's a big difference.
Speaker 2:My coach always says I'm not a therapist, see, he reminds me of that often, which is great.
Speaker 2:But you know, I think from a coaching standpoint, it's like you come with a problem and the coach's job is not to solve the problem but to help you find your own way. So, whereas therapy is a little bit different, you know, a therapy is more probably you're dealing with more personal issues or you're dealing with, you know, more emotional things where I think coaching kind of separates itself to be more in the business side of it, but then it immediately leaks right into your personal life and you can take some of those skills and some of those things that you learn and then bring that back into your personal life. They're definitely different, but they they ultimately are doing the same thing, which is making you better and allowing you an outlet to be able to um, allowing you an outlet to be able to, like, get your thoughts out to someone that is just there to listen and help you and help you find your own way. Not solve your problem, but help you find your own way. I like that.
Speaker 1:I like that a lot.
Speaker 2:I want people to um, I want people to listen to my podcast, but I want them to want to listen. I'm not in it for clicks, I'm not in it for likes, I don't care. If I can help one person by some of the stuff I'm talking about, then I did my job. So, you know, I would encourage people to go on there. It's the club manager journal. It's on all the, all the outlets that you can find Um. I try to update it every Monday. Uh, in season. It's a little spotty, uh, but that is what it is.
Speaker 2:I'm thanks to you and your advice. I've tried to stay out in front of it and get a couple done ahead, but typically Mondays are when new episodes are coming out and I would encourage people to go on there and take a listen and maybe you'll get something out of it. And if I'm helping at least one person, I'm doing something good. If I'm helping at least one person, I'm doing something good. And I would also probably say to other managers out there focus on being 1% better every day and that's it. Don't try to be a person that you're not, don't try to be someone that is not who you are. Just be 1% better than you were yesterday, and if you do that, you're ultimately going to get there and you're going to be the best version of yourself that you can be.
Speaker 1:It's right before you and I were chatting, I was chatting with somebody and it was just about that, which was just compare yourself, Don't compare to others. Compare yourself to yourself and just be a little bit better every time, Can you? You Don't compare to others. Compare yourself to yourself and just be a little bit better every time. Just look at yourself. How can you compare to yourself, make yourself better and that little bit 1% better every day? Perfect timing. That's crazy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's something I think about all the time. I just am trying to be a little bit better than I was yesterday and also give yourself grace as a manager. Like don't, like, nothing's going to be perfect, like it's just it. I, perfection is a killer in our industry. It's, it's a real. We have a we have a perfection problem in club management, uh, where you know things are expected to be something that they're not going to be and you know you have to be okay with the fact that things aren't going to be perfect.
Speaker 2:You know another book that I keep coming back to books, but like one last book that I think people should read is called the One Word by John Gordon. So every year that we start the year, instead of doing a resolution, I immediately think of one word that's going to guide my year, and we do this. A lot of other people managers, I know do this, but it's something that people can think about. My word for 2025 is peace, and that can mean lots of different things, but for me it's peace in all the conversations I have, all the communication that I have with members. Peace in knowing that I'm okay. Peace and knowing that I'm doing the best I can when something goes off the off, off the walls. But that's the word that's guiding me for for for this year and I would, I would recommend that book because it really takes it into.
Speaker 2:We're busy people and it takes, um, it takes a lot to like, really like, get a routine that works. You know, getting up early reading books, it's hard in season to do that, but if you have one word to guide you for the year, boy is that powerful Because you don't have to think Peace, peace in everything that I do for this year, and if I can follow that and other people can create their own word and whatever it might be, some people might be driven in this particular year. Some people might be you know, you know, you know might want to give themselves grace in one year. You know there's lots of different things that you can do. For me it's peace, and next year it'll be something else. But I think that guiding light, that North star word, really helps me get through, um, the the times where things are really challenging.
Speaker 1:Do you have it like written anywhere? Is it on like a sticky note? Like, do you have it Like? Did you get like a ring that has like a P on it? Like, have you gotten like that? Like, have you gotten that far down the rabbit hole with it?
Speaker 2:So so I have it in my journal, I have it, like you know, I have it, I have it in my head and it's not hard to forget one word and and you know I have some other stuff around that are, you know, you know that are things, um, you know that kind of lead to peace. You know again some of Ryan holiday stuff. Uh, there's a Latin term called a more a fat day, which is love your fate. Uh, and that is a really peaceful thing to think about. So, like when things are really like not going well, that's your fate and you have to learn to love it even if it's not great, and that's a peaceful way to look at something that isn't peaceful. So I think back to Amorafate. I have that written in a lot of places, so I guess I kind of do in a roundabout way, but like different stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's good. I think I have to go. I have all my Ryan Holiday books in a nice stack upstairs Like shit. I think I have to go open those back up again. Damn it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you do.
Speaker 2:Especially the Daily Stoic, because it's easy Hold on.
Speaker 1:Go it all right. This is embarrassing. So let's see uh, this is there it is. When did I start it? I started a few years ago. I know that as I put the date, I'm not sure. I don't think so, but the last time I read it was oh, november 30th, okay, november 28th that's not terrible.
Speaker 2:that's not terrible. November 28th that's not terrible. That's not terrible. No, that's not terrible.
Speaker 1:Because it has that little thing in it. So I was like oh no. Yep, but I had it for a few years, so if I go through there's dog ears, I like to engage with my books too. Sure, yeah, I used to be really weird about about I don't know if it was from like school or whatever it's like you have to keep your books like perfect and like pristine, where now it's like nah, I just chop them up, not chop them up.
Speaker 2:Well, you make, you make notes of things you want to remember that like really connected with you yeah you know, like that's, and and I think I think that's what's great about that particular book because each day is just a short paragraph and each month is a different topic. In fact, november is is a more of a day.
Speaker 1:Is it yeah?
Speaker 2:That's weird. Stop it yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm going to double check this. Hold on, I got the book in front of me.
Speaker 2:Let's see, yeah, it is.
Speaker 1:Son of a bitch.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that's that's weird. Yeah, that's a great that's a great.
Speaker 2:That's a great month and one I one I reread a lot too, like even I try to stay on the day but like I'll jump around a little bit, um, but you but it's. But it's like, again, for managers it's really hard, like we're busy. So like that's a quick thing that you can read every morning and you take the time to just sit there and read this one thing, you know, write your thoughts down in your journal and then move on, and that's a great way to start a day, great way to clear your mind, great way to be 1% better every day. Yeah, that's the best we can do.
Speaker 1:I wasn't sure if it was one of his podcasts. I like his podcast, like some of his guests, but he was talking about the Daily Stoic and somebody, I guess, bought it and sent him a message like so it's September, should I wait till January 1st? He's like no, you start on the date that you get it Like yes, right Every day. It's like you know you just start and then it's a cyclical book, it just keeps on going.
Speaker 2:He also has one called the Daily dad yep, which which I also have, and I I typically will read the daily stoic in the morning and the daily dad at night. So, and, and they're, they're similar in their own way, but, um, you know, kind of you know, the other one is kind of hinged to being a parent and you know and kind of how you can use some of the philosophies in your parenting to, um, you know, be a better parent and be just, just be a better role model for your kids.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, he's some good. He's a good stuff. You should, you should start another podcast like the the stoic manager or something.
Speaker 2:Well, I think I'm kind of already there. I think that's kind of what I'm doing. I mean, last couple episodes have been about the four stoic virtues. Each one, each one is is a is a touch on how you can use that particular virtue in, in at your club, and and and in your own life, and how you can be better with it.
Speaker 2:I think I'm kind of getting there anyway, uh, one way or another, and and you know, I didn't intend it to be that way, but I think with these podcasts you know how this goes. It just kind of goes where it goes and you let it happen. Yeah, and if you let it happen, sometimes good things. Sometimes you could find your way without even really knowing that you found your way, you know. So maybe that's where I'm headed, I don't know, but we'll see how it goes and I, I'm, I'm interested in, I'm interested in in. I love when people come to me and say like hey, I really got something out of that, cause. That means like I'm not doing it for me. I'm doing it for me, but I'm also doing it so that I can help other people that are like me that maybe struggle and can't have nowhere to go to talk about it, cause nobody understands what it's like to be a club manager, except for club managers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I can. I can totally get that Cause it's the same but different. It's, like, you know, trying to describe to my wife sometimes like, like she, she would like watch. You know she might come to a show every now and then she'd be like, oh, like that was good. I'm like yeah, but, and like she can't like. Sometimes like yeah, but like but it was a good show. Like they were like yeah, but remember that thing, like that didn't go as planned and yeah, she's like no, but it was like yeah, you don't understand. Like, yeah, there's like this, similar things it's like, yeah, it's, it's, there's all.
Speaker 2:Every job has a little like kind of thing to it, that the quirky things, um. But I've learned in club management that like it's the being on all the time and it's the, it's the how integrated you get with a club. It becomes like your life, and that's good and bad. And I've learned that there has to be a little bit of a separation there and you've got to be able to come to your club with a clear head and you've got to be able to come to your home with a clear head and you've got to be able to come to your home with a clear head. And if both things are working in convergence together, then it's a good thing.
Speaker 2:But sometimes that doesn't happen and that's why I hate work-life balance, because that's not a thing that doesn't count, because in the summer, when you work like 20 days in a row, there is no work-life balance, but in the winter, when you have two months off, there is.
Speaker 2:So you have to realize that sometimes it's gonna be in one direction and sometimes it's gonna be in another, and be okay with that and just like my gauge to know that I'm on the right path, at least career-wise, is when I pull into my club, into the parking lot, do I have the same excitement that I had the first day I pulled in? The answer is yes, and when I lose that excitement then I know I'm not at the right club anymore. So managers could ask themselves that one question and say when you pull into the club in the morning, does your stomach turn over, are you like? Get me out of here. I can't wait till this is over. You're probably at the wrong club. That club's probably not serving you. If you're excited when you drive into the club, then you probably are at the right place, and I am, I know. I am because I know that feeling every day.
Speaker 1:This is so good. This is so good, this is so much better than I thought. Oh my goodness, I wasn't expecting it to be bad, but you know what I mean. Like just totally unexpected.
Speaker 2:This is so good Thanks, Thank you.
Speaker 1:So, so so much for coming on. Thank you for all you're doing for the industry. Your podcast is fantastic, Thanks. Thank you, man. I really really appreciate this. Thanks.
Speaker 2:Appreciate this. Thanks. Thanks for having me on, Denny. This is awesome. Had a great time chatting.
Speaker 1:Hope you all enjoyed that episode. I know I did. Jeff is such a wonderful dude, wonderful human, wonderful person. Jeff, thank you so much for coming on. Thank you so much for what you do for the industry with your podcast and just with you yourself as a leader. Highly recommend you check out his podcast, the Club Manager's Journal. Peter, highly recommend you check out his podcast, the Club Manager's Journal. It's on all major podcast platforms. Wherever you listen to this episode or this podcast, you can find his as well. But that's this episode, Until next time. I'm your host, Danny Corby. Catch y'all on the flippity flip.
