Private Club Radio Show
Welcome to the Private Club Radio Show, the industry's weekly source for education, news, trends, and other current developments in the world of private clubs.
Hosted by the talented entertainer and industry expert, Denny Corby,
the podcast offers a unique perspective on the private club industry, featuring expert guests, product spotlights, predictions, and more.
Whether you're involved in a golf club management, yacht clubs, athletic clubs, or business clubs, the Private Club Radio Show is the essential podcast for
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Private Club Radio Show
437: Coaching, Consulting, and the Club Life in Between w/ Kevin Ehlert
Kevin Ehlert shares his journey from dishwasher to GM to consultant and certified coach, bringing a refreshing perspective on what leadership really looks like when you strip away the title, pressure, and 'always on' mentality that many GMs feel they must maintain.
• Starting as a dishwasher and working his way up through various city clubs
• The distinct differences between mentoring, coaching, and consulting
• Why leaders often feel isolated and unable to show vulnerability
• How curiosity may be the most important leadership trait
• The value of continuous learning through books and shared experiences
• Finding ways to create safe spaces for leaders to be authentic
• Why we should celebrate milestones along our leadership journey
• Approaching leadership like orienteering - having a map but being flexible with the route
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Hey everybody, welcome to the Private Club Radio Show, where we give you the scoop on all things private golf and country clubs from mastering leadership and management, food and beverage excellence, member engagement secrets, board governance and everything in between, all while keeping it fun and light. Whether you're a club veteran just getting your feet wet or somewhere in the middle, you are in the right place. I'm your host, denny Corby. Welcome to the show. In this episode I sit down with my friend, kevin Ellert, all the way from Wisconsin, from Wisconsin. And what a great guy, what a great person, a good human.
Speaker 1:I've known Kevin can't tell you how many years now five, six, seven, pre-pandemic, for sure. We met at a CMAA event the Wisconsin Badger many, many years ago and we got to chatting at CMAA and got to recording and it almost turned into a coaching session for me. It felt like, because then he started interviewing me and at one point I was like wait, what's going on here? But just a great person, a good human, starting off as a dishwasher to GM to now consultant and certified coach, and he brings a real refreshing perspective to the club space. We recorded this episode at the CMA conference back in Tampa and we talk about what leadership really looks like when you strip away the title, the pressure and that always on mentality that I think so many GMs think that they have to have. We talk about the difference between mentoring, coaching and just giving advice, why there's a bunch of managers who feel alone at the top and what we can do about that. And one of my favorite things is why curiosity might be the most important leadership trait of all.
Speaker 1:I'm super stoked to bring this episode for you all. We had a great conversation. Before we get to that, a quick thanks to some of our show partners Kenneth's Member, vetting Club, capital Group Members, first Golf Life Navigators and Concert Golf Partners, as well as myself. The Denny Corby Experience there's excitement, there's mystery. Also there's magic, mind reading, comedy and crowd work. One of the most fun, interactive, engaging experiences and shows you can bring to your members. Want to learn more? Head on over to dennycorbycom. But enough about that, let's get to the episode Private Club Radio.
Speaker 2:Let's welcome to the show. Kevin Eller. Kevin Ehlert Came over right after World War I and were embarrassed about what was happening in Germany.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I wish they had just changed. You know American. They refused to speak German. My grandfather was born here and never learned German.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of families that are like that. There's some that will own and keep their traditions. Others are like we are going to modernize and not learned German. There's a lot of families that are like that. There's some that will own and keep their traditions, and others are like we are going to modernize and not adjust at all.
Speaker 2:And so Wells, minnesota, was German-Polish, and then I grew up in Bryson. We were out in the farm country, so just how the lines were drawn. So I went to Bryson, which is Norwegian, but during World War II there was a POW camp in Wells, just outside of town, and German POWs came over and were there and there was one guard at the gate and people they either worked at. So there was a Blue Bunny factory, there was a Del Monte canning factory in town and they had all the farmers. So there's a Blue Bunny factory, there was a Del Monte canning factory in town and they had all the farmers and they actually came over to family and so they had to spend. I think, if I remember they had to spend Friday night at the POW camp, otherwise Saturday through and maybe it was Saturday it was either Friday night night or saturday night. Wow, so like life in a pew w camp here was very different than in germany and what?
Speaker 1:what year was that then?
Speaker 2:in 1940s and they made. They had a hemp factory. They made rope for initially the factory made rope hemp for shipping and stuff and then it was all for the war yeah.
Speaker 1:And then were you the first person in your family to get in the clubs. How did you find your way? Was it school after school, during school?
Speaker 2:I fell into it. So I put my son like 15 years old, dad's, like you should have a job in the wintertime. I grew up on a farm so we worked, you know, spring through fall, but like get some pocket money. So I washed dishes at the Legion, no, at the pub. So there's Bryson's, this tiny town, there's two bars in town, and then the funny thing is aa was right behind it on the same, you know, same front main street pub, legion, aa on the backside. But so I'm 15, I'm washing dishes and about 10, 30 at night somebody out of the bar is yelling, hey, can you come and help? And the bartender had passed out. And so I, from 10, 30 till one at night, all I really did was open beer and pour straight. With 15, statute of limitations is gone. I'm sure I'm fine at this point, yeah.
Speaker 2:So in a sense, actually, truthfully, I got into this business through Boy Scouts. You know, you go to summer camp, yeah, you cook for four or five, six hundred people or you cook for your small group, stuff like that. So I got into the hospitality side that way. And then in college I worked in bars, restaurants, clubs. And then in college I worked in bars, restaurants, clubs, you know, go serve banquet server for a club when they need help and stuff like that. So that's how I kind of fell in and I went to school for physics and engineering.
Speaker 1:And then music and dance for minors.
Speaker 2:Well, I guess if you're going to properly jump, you should know the proper trajectory to jump off the foot and land properly. So the college piece. I thought I wanted to be an architect, be an engineer. I was the first one in our family to go to college Really so and I realized, as I was kind of finishing up, that there's no way I'm going to be a draftsman and an architect and sit in some office and draw. I'm an extrovert. I'm not a functioning extrovert. I'm not, you know. I'm like I need this and I need to help people. Where was your first management gig? It was at a little semi-private nine-hole golf course west side of the Twin Cities called River's Edge. They had a big banquet operation. They had a big restaurant and a cute little nine-hole golf course. There's a river that ran through it Darn thing flooded every spring, you know, because you know rain runoff in Minnesota was bad.
Speaker 1:Were you always in? No, because you were in Colorado for a bit right. No, no, you were always in Minnesota.
Speaker 2:Minnesota, wisconsin, and then I did spend seven years in California. That's what I was thinking California, so not in Folsom Prison, but what was the difference between?
Speaker 1:Because it had to be a slight change of pace from Minnesota to California.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I went from one city club to another. So I mean, and I actually went, so I managed a woman's club, the woman's club in Minneapolis, and then I went to the Sutter Club club, which had been a men's only club, um, and then so the state broke them and in they said they, california can't describe, yeah, you know. And they, they hated the setter club. It was right across from the capitol, very republican or very conservative club, and so the state said, fine, you can, um, you can discriminate by by sex if you want. And then they wrote a law that said no organizations that discriminate may have a liquor license. And so then the club put to a vote and it passed like 98%. They had like 10 votes, no, so their liquor license was more important than some stupid principle of not letting women in, where the women's club let men in in the 70s and actually I kind of went back and I read through their history they never prohibited men from joining, but in the 70s, you know, somebody passed away and the husband was like hey, can I keep the membership? You know our family's growing up here and they're like sure, we don't care. But yeah, it was a little different, um, although sacramento itself is a in a lot of senses, like the midwest. Uh, it's why, uh, the kings got all the crap about being a cow town, you know when, remember when, nba, all that. But no, it was a little different because Sacramento itself was a government town, like there was not Minneapolis, st Paul, twin Cities was so much more diverse, like you had Medtronic, boston Scientific, 3m, honeywell, like, I think, the biggest congregation of Fortune 500 companies and maybe still and so a very intellectually diverse, yeah, and not as much banking as you do find out, like in Des Moines or stuff like that. So it actually was a little. It wasn't nearly as diverse in some senses, and the pace of life in Sacramento was actually pretty slow. Really, it's a government town, nothing happens, and I don't mean to be disrespectful or mean, you know, and it was weird Back then. So it was 2008,.
Speaker 2:Sacramento's marketing was we're 90 minutes from San Francisco, we're 90 minutes from Lake Tahoe and we're 90 minutes from Napa Valley. And I remember getting working with a chamber group in the city. I'm like, why are you putting your marketing on three other places? You're the sixth largest economy in the world. It's here. Sure, it all happens elsewhere. It's here. Who cares about San Francisco or Napa or Tahoe? Own it Exactly, they didn't own it. Own it and exactly they didn't own it. So the town was slow, like we were a city club. We closed at 5 o'clock.
Speaker 1:We weren't open for dinner, because no one came.
Speaker 2:No one came. You know, they went out to the suburbs, went out to the country clubs at night. Lunch was booming, Yep, breakfast or no, we did breakfast. They shot themselves in the foot because where they served breakfast they required coat and tie. And here was the crazy thing. So we're in California, which is already laid back, yeah, and in town the lawyers didn't even wear a suit, except they had suits in their closets at work if they had to go to court. And on Fridays we were so slow, even at lunch, because we didn't allow jeans, and everybody, and I mean everybody in Sacramento, wore jeans on Friday. So, but they still wanted to be coat and tie, yeah, in that room, but yet they wouldn't come and use it. So, anyways.
Speaker 1:So how many city clubs were you at? Just those two.
Speaker 2:Those two, and then I did work in San Francisco. I did a year, a little over a year, doing consulting at a woman's club in San Francisco as well. So three big city clubs in my career.
Speaker 1:And then what made you pivot, from management to the consulting and things that you're doing now consulting and coaching.
Speaker 2:I think finding you know one, finding a way to give back. I've always been a coach. How so? Even back in high school, people asked for help. I'd see someone who needed help with something and I'm not talking about they need help with math or stuff like that, but life stuff and so I think part of it. I'll go back to Boy Scouts, because there, in some senses, they teach you how to mentor.
Speaker 1:What's the difference between a mentor and a coach? Is there?
Speaker 2:Mentors usually don't get paid Coaches. Do you know, a coach is somewhat transactional, it doesn't mean you don't care for clients and things like that. But with a mentor you're building a relationship and usually it's someone older and someone younger, but you know the the mentee is meant to have a built, have built trust and have a safe space. I guess that's the popular word term now. But you know, hey, I don't know how to do this, or I'm scared of this, or you know.
Speaker 1:So is it more like tough love versus like. So is it more like mentoring is a little bit more hand-holding, whereas coaching is a little bit more like, okay, shut up and just do it. Like a little bit more I want to say no, shut up and do it is consulting, okay.
Speaker 2:So I got Shut up and do it is consulting, okay. Okay. So I got certified as a coach this year, like I've done this forever, I've never been certified. And so I took this sabbatical. My wife was like you should get certified, you should. You know, you've been doing this forever. And I found out I was doing about 30% of it wrong. You know, that's a big change forever. And I found out I was doing about 30% of it wrong. You know, and that's a big Sure.
Speaker 2:And so here's the deal as a consultant, you tell your client or the company this is what's wrong, here's how you fix it. As a coach, you ask questions and truthfully, and then I'll talk. The mentee piece I'll talk about as well. So, as a coach, you ask some questions, leading questions, you listen and then you want them to have the aha moment or the light bulb go off. You know, sometimes be visit, but it. And every once, while it opens, you know, the Sun comes out and yeah, and the angels say, but you. And so what I was doing wrong is I was conflating coaching and consulting a little bit. I was too eager to tell you what was wrong. You know, and sometimes you have to the client has to struggle through. You know, really has to struggle through. Yeah, and I mean, all of us have blocks. I have blocks even to this day, and you want to help them work through that block and it's best for them if they do it and they're guided through, as opposed to you telling them they're blocked.
Speaker 1:Is that sort of like. The difference too between like a, I guess, like a more experienced coach is like when you're first you get it, you're more eager and you want to just like see them get the results and like that's it. But it's like as you kind of grow a little bit, you're like oh no, this has to be right, and a coach is not a therapist, like it's.
Speaker 2:Like it's, it's very easy to get sucked in, um, and so I mean, I have a couple of therapists for people, um, like, I always encourage them, hey, do you have someone that you know if you're a spiritual person, you know. Do you have someone at your you know if it's a church or whatever that is? You know. But some of these things are therapy, they're not coaching, you know. You know sometimes you're dealing with mental illness or you know.
Speaker 1:So the difference between coach, mentor and consultant.
Speaker 2:So the mentor piece, I think it's both consulting and coaching. But I have a couple of people that we have been. They started off as a mentor, as a mentee, 10, 15 years ago 15 years ago the one I'm thinking of specifically and we still connect. So here's the thing, I think, with a mentee the question what do you want to be when you grow up? Magician, okay. But now what does that mean? Let's dig into that a little bit. What does that mean? What do you want to be five years from now? Do you still want to be a magician? If the answer is no, you want to be something else. Or do you want to have, five years from now, I want to be on Penn Teller, I want to be featured, those types of things. Five years from now, I want to have kids, or I want to open up a magic school, all those types of things, and so having that relationship, you're asked that question all the time. My youngest daughter came home from christmas and we've had our first serious conversation. She's like dad, what do you want to be when you grow up? She asked you, she asked me. We still, we still do so. I have some.
Speaker 2:I grew up on a farm and my grandmother said some very inspiring things to me. One God gave you two ears and one mouth. Use them accordingly. Two if you're not learning, you're dying, and unfortunately she lost her eyesight later in life and so she couldn't read anymore, and that just was so hard for her. But she's like you need to learn and learn from books, learn from people, and so I've had this thirst for knowledge. You know it's something that was instilled in us as just and it wasn't you have to do this. It just, it was natural. It was what our family did. It was natural, it was what our family did. So I try to, as a mentor and as a coach, I try to instill that in people. Some people hate reading books. I have one daughter. It's hard sometimes, yeah, so she listens to podcasts, she listens to books on tape Yep Now you're dating yourself.
Speaker 1:Books on tape.
Speaker 2:Audible. Oh, my books on tape audible, oh my gosh. I just did. Books on cassette, oh my gosh, this is awesome. I'm hey, I'm old, I'm old actually, yeah, we won't go there, but uh, you know, and I mean, my audible library is monstrous, by the way. So, but Do I compare? No, no. And then I have another daughter she reads and she just wants the book. And then I have another daughter She'll do podcasts and stuff. She doesn't have to pay tons of attention, but she wants it on Kindle, she wants it digital. So three different daughters, three different types of consuming knowledge.
Speaker 1:Do any of them do the book and the audio. So I'm a big fan of doing both, because sometimes, even though I'll read or I'll listen, my brain will just go off. But I can. If I read they're not always like in in in perfect sync, but like it'll just help me get through it, or I can just get things a little bit better interesting or like sometimes, if I know like what's already sort of coming, I can like comprehend it and take it in like a little bit differently and better.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like, for me like, and I don't have any particular way, but I buy a lot of things on both. It drives my wife crazy. Why don't you One? So I try to buy cheap used books all the time, unless I want one that I really think is important. But I'll listen to the same thing. But I don't do it side by side. That's interesting.
Speaker 1:It's not always, because I know on Audible and Kindle you can have them sync, so where you stop listening it'll pick up on the kindle and vice versa. Like it could, they can, but I just like I was like listen to it, then I'll also like just read it, but I don't keep them in like perfect, like harmony yeah, I like.
Speaker 2:I like writing in books, me too. My books have notes and tags.
Speaker 1:I wasn't for a while, I think, because growing up in school they're like you can't ruin the book, you can't do X, y and Z, and I have some expensive magic books. And now, over the past couple of years I'm just like screw it. Now I'm just doggier pages, just writing them, some of the real expensive ones, like it's like post-it notes, like I won't like destroy, but like it's just engaging with the book, like just yeah, just I don't know. And then there is something like to be said like I have friends with libraries or like in mint condition, they're just like read it like it's a book, it's just paper, just engage with it.
Speaker 2:Um, so yeah do you give books to people? Yeah, do you write in them? I do like like go in the middle of the book I, I have, so, so, uh, uh, I got my first.
Speaker 1:The uh sean blile sent me up two books for christmas and like there was where his business card was, was like a highlighted section. Whatever he's like, I think you'll like whatever it was. And I was like, oh man, like that was just powerful, like it was like oh, oh, still gives me the chills.
Speaker 2:No, so, and I don't necessarily do this to be sneaky, but, like with some of my coaching clients, I put a ten dollar bill in the book. I give them and and and a note. You know, hey, you know, starbucks on me, or well, there's no jamba juice in the midwest, you know. But, yeah, you know, you know, and if and if I know that they like some somewhere, I'm like, you know, hey, fiddleheads on on me, um, and then, because sometimes we're doing some of the coaching through, you know, excerpts in the book, I give them a book that's meaningful, not not just a random book, and then you know we're talking. I can tell a little bit that they're, you know, giving me a snow job because they haven't. Yeah, you got to do the homework, yeah, and I'm like, so how'd you enjoy the coffee or the jamba juice? And then, and then they realize, and so they go home and yeah you know, they're like oh that's funny.
Speaker 1:What are some of your favorite books to recommend?
Speaker 2:um, so I'm going to give a shameless plug. Um three and jack. Jackie carpenter wrote a great book called people first. You know from a, you know if you're, if you're looking to help your team, jackie Carpenter wrote a great book called People First. If you're looking to help your team, take care of people. It's fabulous, darn it. Why didn't I write this book? Yes, yes, yes, we've needed this for so long. There's an interesting one called the One Thing, so that's a good one Chewing Through. So I've read Unreasonable Hospitality several times and listened to that several times so, and I've become a coach and a consultant with them. But I highly recommend that if you're looking to elevate your business and I don't care what your business is- it's a good, it's just good.
Speaker 2:You can take it into manufacturing dog grooming. Certainly it's hospitality. Every business is hospitality. No, they think well, and yes, it is exactly yeah, because in the end I don't care about all this technology.
Speaker 1:In the end it's going to come down to this, so but so, yeah, one of my uh actually a guest I just had on had chadman, he was downstairs um, we're recording live at cmaa show. We uh he recommended the the art of possibility and it's uh, it's like a conductor and and a psychologist when you listen to it. The interlude music is like his music. My oldest daughter is listening to it. Yeah, it's really good. It's really good uh, and sometimes you ever just you don't like I don't fully remember the book, but just knowing what the title is just gives you like enough, like good to great. You just got to know, like, what the title is and you're like all right, it's still pretty good.
Speaker 1:Uh, one of my favorites I give it out a lot is uh, the. It's called the third door. It's by alex benignan and, uh, if you listen to it, it's a great story. The short story long is he hacked his way onto the Price is Right and it just talks about how, in life and anything, there's three ways to get into something. So if there's like a nightclub, there's the front door that everybody goes through. There's the VIP door that you might have to know some people pay actually to goes through. There's the VIP door that you know you might have to know some people who pay actually to get through.
Speaker 1:But you know there's a third way in which you might have to crawl through the kitchen window and then put on a chef's outfit and pretend like you work there and get through, but like you can find your way in. So it's just like there's always a way in. There's always like a third door, so kind of like the art of possibility. It's just like there's always a way. But it's a great story and just how he connected and just how he just worked his way up to now a best-selling author, it's just a great story. The Third Door it's one of those two. It's easy to read.
Speaker 1:Sometimes you read a business book or something you're like. Cut it with the big words, we get it. It's just a great, great story.
Speaker 2:Brian Dodge wrote a book. Book, I don't know if you know who brian dodge is sounds familiar. Um, he hates this. If, if he ever caught this podcast, I'd get yelled at, and it's not like I know him personally really, but, um, he's a motivational speaker, okay, and and it's common sense stuff. But he wrote a book called the good life rules and I'll send you one. I think I've got two copies. I'll send you one when I get back to milwaukee. Um, and then what else have I read? That's good, I don't know. I've read like 12 books in the last four weeks or five weeks, so I that's what an average person reads.
Speaker 1:An average person reads one a week. The average person reads like one a year. The average CEO or successful leader reads like 52 or even like 26 or something like what it is.
Speaker 2:So I was slouching a little because I was doing some certifications and a lot of studying and stuff. So I was playing some catch up over Christmas. But my oldest daughter, two years ago, three years ago, she set a goal to read a hundred books in the year and she did extra pleasure reading. That wasn't and she's a voracious reader.
Speaker 1:I'm a fast reader, as is she One of those people who can finish Harry Potter in a full day? How?
Speaker 2:in the world. She did that actually in book two or three or something.
Speaker 1:I started reading when I was younger. I got the first one and I read it. It took me a minute and then I started reading the second one. When I started reading the second one, the third one was coming out and I just saw how progressively thicker they were getting. I was like I'm going to wait for the movies. Sometimes, when the too big, too many stories, my brain, I don't read. Well, when there's too many characters like I, too many characters, I start, I can't always focus. So sometimes I like to even like, sometimes even like I know people hate it but like watching a movie or something first and then I can read it, cause then I could, like, I could, I can grasp and understand, like the ideas and stuff.
Speaker 2:Have you, have you heard of Donald Miller? There's a couple Donald Millers.
Speaker 1:Building a story brand Yep. Are you talking about a different?
Speaker 2:one, yep, no, actually that's the one. Yeah, there's a book, blue Like Jazz, and he wrote it a long time ago. Blue Like Jazz, yep, and it's really his life story in some senses. It's really his life story in some senses. But it's funny, the woman that is in his book, actually we knew what when we moved to California this is an old book, sorry yeah, she was the girlfriend in that book and she had, you know, they they had separated, she'd married someone else. Their kids and our kids are the same age.
Speaker 2:They were doing theater in the theater group that my wife helped start out in Sacramento and and I said to her, I happened to mention to her actually, actually Cheryl did, we had gone to the Orange conference in atlanta. It was for, like, children's ministries and they had donald miller speaking there and, um, I met him, I was in a couple of his classes, um, and we were doing we interact a little bit afterwards and then I read his book blue like jazz, and cheryl was was raving about how great this conference was, and Donald Miller and she goes, what? And I'm like, yeah, it's the guy who wrote Blue Like Jazz. And she kind of was like I have to tell you something? It was me, well, and she hadn't read the book, so she didn't, you know, and there's nothing bad in it, but it's just like, how small a world is it? And then now, all these years later, I've kind of circled back and I'm working with their organization a little bit.
Speaker 1:As we wrap up, what are the common I don't want to say themes, but issues that maybe you've run across with your coaching people and the common solution? Is there one common thing that you've run into a lot, and then what do you see as the relief to that? Okay, I don't know if I phrased that right. I think you're picking up what I'm putting down.
Speaker 2:So I have some non-club management clients I guess I call them and some club management clients. There's a common theme, regardless of this industry, and if they're the person at the top, they're lonely, they can't be vulnerable like. I can't let my board know, um, that I'm scared, hurt, stressed. I can't let my staff know, because I gotta be the pillar, I you know, um, and the like, the business owner or the you know, and if they don't own the business but they're running the business for someone else, like, like, they can't be vulnerable you know, and they're lonely, like that's.
Speaker 2:It's a lonely position. And it's even worse is if you can't be vulnerable with your spouse or partner or whatever that is, if you don't have someone out there, and if you're a good German Lutheran farm stock, you stuff it all inside. Oh, that was me, but you know you stuff it all inside. Oh, that was me, but you know, you stuff it all inside. And you know there's something you know I'm not trying to get on a soapbox on American culture, but until recently it hasn't been cool to you know, share your emotions.
Speaker 1:Even now, here at the conference, I feel like a big theme is, you know, cerebral wellness.
Speaker 2:This is a much needed, welcome, drastic change.
Speaker 1:I mean almost from main sessions to on stage, to the breakouts, to even the little tiny little. You know, that's where a coach comes in.
Speaker 2:And as a coach like I, have to build your trust. You have to trust me to ever be vulnerable, and so it's been good for me too. I mean, you know, I have to be real with them. If I'm fake with you, know someone, whether it's, you know, a mentee, a business owner in consulting or a coach if I'm fake, they pick up on it. Oh easy. We were just having a conversation with a manager downstairs about neuroscience and not being aware. For some people it comes easy Thank goodness for me it's come easy but other people it comes easy Thank goodness for me it's come easy but other people it doesn't. And you don't pick up on those cues and some people are really good at hiding. And so I think, working through problems with people and helping them know and I don't necessarily have all the answers on it, but I can be a resource and help you find the answer for that particular thing um, you know, help them.
Speaker 2:A lot of this is identify the problem. Um, what do you want to do about the problem? Set goals, um, make a plan and work the plan. You know, it's kind of a five, six-step piece and then celebrate when you're done, actually celebrate every one of those goals. When you accomplish them, celebrate every one of those milestones. I mean, have you ever done? Do you know what orienteering is? No, so it's lost art because of MapQuest and Google Maps and all those things, but it's taking a map and a compass and going from point A to point B without getting lost. So, and there's lots of ways, like you know, I'm going to circle all the way back to Boy Scouts.
Speaker 2:You know we did a lot of hiking, yeah, and we're hiking through the black hills and we had like four routes that we could take to get there. It doesn't no route was right. Each one had a pitfall that was somewhat major. You know we're carrying 50 pound packs and sometimes canoes and stuff like that and like some routes you shouldn't take, like especially if you had younger kids who didn't have as much strength. Um, and other routes.
Speaker 2:You know you're climbing or, however you go, make a plan to get there. If you have to make a detour, fine, make it purposefully, not just willy-nilly. You know, and if you have that plan, you know that map, that compass to guide you through. I try to give imagery to people on how to use you know how to use that and if you know somebody's into something else. You know that's relatable. I try to use that as opposed to you know orienteering. People are like what the hell is that? You know that doesn't make sense, but orienteering. But so when you were little, what did you aspire to be? Do you want to be a football player or basketball player? Yeah, okay. So did you make a plan? No, okay, I think you did Without knowing you did.
Speaker 1:No, I mean. So I worked for my family business and they were the ones that because to me I didn't know from my family business, and they were the ones that because to me I I didn't know it was, so I wasn't around the right people or the magicians I saw weren't quote-unquote successful. But once I was like, oh, there's people who do make a good living at it and they don't do kid shows. There's, like others, there's other avenues with it. Once I saw that, even even even with that, I was still like, wasn't sure it was my family pushed me. I was working for the family business, like, listen, we know you love the entertainment. We don't want you to be 30, 40, 50. Go and try it. You can always come back here. We just don't want you to be like what if I would have tried? So then I, you know, once I pushed off the ledge, jumped without the parachute and after a year of putting up a website, going, oh, people booked me and realized you have to put work in. So like there was.
Speaker 2:I guess once it was in place, but, like earlier on, it wasn't. I'm going to ask a couple questions. So how did I have a suspicion I'm going to make a guess first that you watched as many magicians as you could always? Yeah, okay, so, and you knew when somebody was going to be on or how to get some, so you made some plans to watch that like the world's greatest magic, best show. Yeah, okay. How did you learn the sleight of hand stuff? Like you bought books or you bought resources? Um, I don't know a lot about it, but there's kits that I know that you can buy.
Speaker 1:It's like once you get past the kits, there's magic shop. There's books on everything with magic, so there's books. Now there used to be videos, now it's streaming. There's people who you can just learn, so just like a similar coach, whatever. There's other magicians that you can learn that they teach there. There's other magicians that are phenomenal sleight of hands and great with routines, but they suck as performers, so like they make routines. There's magic consultants. They help with like your stuff, with your shtick and all that jazz.
Speaker 2:So how much? I'm interviewing you now.
Speaker 1:in some senses I know I might have to edit this down.
Speaker 2:Or use more of it somewhere else, but like. So you knew always that you wanted to be a magician, I think so, Okay, or so it was entertainment of probably some sort.
Speaker 1:It's like I'm a very outgoing person. So just that you know, I used to work in retail, retail stuff when I was just in high school too, and so just that you know, I used to work in retail stuff when I was just in high school too, Even though I worked for my dad but always had little weird jobs and stuff.
Speaker 2:Like I think you just one, you love performing. I would say you're a performer first. You're an entertainer. Yeah, entertainer, you know. And magic is the way you.
Speaker 1:It's just a tool. It's just how I can stay on stage without being boring.
Speaker 2:I don't know that you'd ever be boring. So we met in 2018, maybe I think it was 17 or 18. You were up in Milwaukee, yep, and you brought me up because I had a $100 bill my favorite trick and I'm like, oh crap, I'm losing a hundred dollar bill, my favorite trick. And I'm like, oh crap, I'm losing a hundred dollar bill. And you had me write my name in this wide old red sharpie, kevin, and I watched you do the trick and and I like figuring stuff out, yeah, and I had kind of figured it out, I just BS. No, I can tell you, I can tell off camera, off camera, but I camera. But I still, even though I thought I still was like, oh my gosh, this is so amazing, but I just got rid of that $100 bill.
Speaker 1:Really.
Speaker 2:Yes, not on purpose.
Speaker 1:It only happened recently Twice in less than two months. Everyone always like two people were like can I trade you, I don't want? They were like afraid. Two people were like can I trade you, I don't want? They were like afraid it wasn't like usable. So I actually have one in my bag, that's. So I had to trade I think it was at St Pete Yacht Club Like someone's written $100. It's red. I know I still use a red marker. Well, because red is easy. It's easy to see, right.
Speaker 2:So when you're on skates, and I didn't get rid of it on purpose, like one of the kids was running to get some stuff and I'm like, oh, I'm like, did that have the? I was keeping that in, but anyway, that was fun yeah.
Speaker 1:I forget where we were going with that I don't know.
Speaker 2:It kind of went rabbit trail. I know, but I mean, in some senses, you've created a path for your life and you have goals on where you want to go, and so that's a lot of what a coach will help someone do. Yeah, you know, and I mean, there's some people in life who don't know what they want to be when they grow up and they've been doing whatever they're doing for 20 years or 30 years.
Speaker 1:And so it's who you surround yourself with. It's what the other people are telling you, whether they're affirming or reinforcing the beliefs or limited beliefs or whatever BS you have going on in your head. You are some of the top five people that you surround yourself with yep, yep.
Speaker 2:So I have a kind of a closing story. So I have a daughter and when we moved to Wisconsin we were looking at some houses and they had an open house thing and Fred Astaire Dance Studio was giving away coupons for a free lesson and she had been in dance and theater all her life. She's a fabulous dancer. And so she went and pretty soon, you know, and being in dance is like ballroom dancing is expensive and they're on her to go pro and for the last four or five years, like cal, you should be a pro dancer. And she came to the realization I love this. I don't want to do it professionally because then it won't become fun, you know, and I'm like that's so powerful and to realize that a young age yeah, yeah, so yeah, anyways, you know that's a piece she.
Speaker 2:You know she figured that out about herself and I mean, you know his parents are. We were in, we were encouraging her to do that, not trying to push, but that's like you have an employee. You see potential for them that they don't see in themselves. Go back to high school Kinetic energy, potential energy. Potential energy is just a rock sitting there. A piece of uranium isn't doing anything if it's just sitting there molded into something else. And so many people don't know what they want in life, so they just do what they think they have to do or what somebody else thinks they have to do. So you know, midlife crisis are manifestations of being unhappy with who you are, and some people go and reinvent themselves and some people buy. If they're old white men, they buy a Corvette, or you know. Oh my gosh, you know. So, yeah, do you know that they now have quarter-life crisis?
Speaker 1:I think I had one, yeah, so, anyways, thanks for coming on, bud Sure. Hope you all enjoyed that episode. I know I did, kevin, thank you so much for coming on. Means the world If you're enjoying the content. A like, share, subscribe Costs nothing and does so much for the channel. That's this episode. Until next time. I'm your host, danny Corby.
