Private Club Radio Show
Welcome to the Private Club Radio Show, the industry's weekly source for education, news, trends, and other current developments in the world of private clubs.
Hosted by the talented entertainer and industry expert, Denny Corby,
the podcast offers a unique perspective on the private club industry, featuring expert guests, product spotlights, predictions, and more.
Whether you're involved in a golf club management, yacht clubs, athletic clubs, or business clubs, the Private Club Radio Show is the essential podcast for
anyone seeking valuable insights and information on the latest trends and developments in the private club industry.
Private Club Radio Show
442: Bourbon & Leadership: Lessons From A Chef Turned GM w/ Kevin Rice
What do bourbon, mentorship, and kitchen chaos have in common? Kevin Rice.
In this episode, we chat with Kevin Rice— ormer chef, current GM of Lexington Country Club, and certified executive bourbon steward—to talk about leading with flavor. They dive into what it takes to train young staff (even when they can’t legally taste the wine), how bourbon tastings became a secret weapon for member engagement, and why the best leaders don’t bark orders—they teach.
From redesigning kitchens to managing multi-million-dollar capital projects, Kevin blends people-first leadership with straight-up bourbon wisdom.
If you’ve ever wondered how to run a private club like a Michelin-starred operation—with a little Kentucky charm—this one’s for you.
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Hey everybody, welcome to the Private Club Radio Show, where we give you the scoop on all things private golf and country clubs from mastering leadership and management, food and beverage excellence, member engagement secrets, board governance and everything in between, all while keeping it fun and light, whether you're a club veteran just getting your feet wet or somewhere in the middle, you are in the right place. I'm your host, denny Corby. Welcome to the show In place. I'm your host, denny Corby. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 1:In this episode, I am hanging out with Kevin Rice, who is a certified bourbon steward, a lifelong chef and now general manager of Lexington Country Club in Lexington, kentucky, where he's bringing the heat in more ways than one. He shares how his culinary background, which includes working in restaurant groups, gave him the tools to manage complexity, build resilient teams and think many, many steps ahead. From redesigning kitchens to leading capital projects, he's blended practical know-how with people-first leadership and added a splash of bourbon expertise for good measure. We dig into the realities of young service staff especially the young service staff when they're not quite old enough to drink alcohol and taste alcohol and bourbons and wines, and how to properly educate them on what to tell the members. And it's really neat because we talk about how bourbon tastings became a really cool secret weapon for member engagement with Kevin and his members and we also touch on why the best leaders teach, mentor and inspire rather than micromanage. The best leaders teach, mentor and inspire rather than micromanage. Kevin's take on club culture, continuing education and evolving through the CMAA is packed with insights and more than a few sips of Kentucky wisdom. This is really good and I cannot wait for us to dive in Really quick. A quick shout out Some of the people who make this show possible, some of our show partners we have Kennes, member vetting golf life, navigators, members first concert golf partners and club capital, as well as myself the Denny Corby experience.
Speaker 1:There's excitement, there's mystery. Also, there is magic, and available right now. If you would like to learn how to put on the ultimate comedy night, I have a free guide for you the comedy night blueprint how to knock it out of the park every single time with your comedy night. Head on over to DennyCorbycom slash comedy guide. That's DennyCorbycom slash comedy guide and I'll get that straight to your inbox. So, private Club Radio listeners, let's welcome to the show and raise a glass of bourbon, kevin.
Speaker 2:Rice, kevin rice. So sun's out, uh and uh, uh. We're at about 75 today, so golf course is pretty full. Uh, until this evening when the basketball games start again, and then we'll. No one will be out there, they'll be in front of tvs can't beat that getting away from the club.
Speaker 1:No kidding, now you came from the chef side, right.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I was a chef for about 30 years, I guess, before I transitioned over, traded my chef coat for a suit coat.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what's been the experience so far? Good, bad. Do you like it? What's been any like unexpected things? You were like oh, this is harder, this was easier uh, I really enjoy it.
Speaker 2:Uh, I I really like uh getting to use uh all the different skills that I've acquired. You know, over the years. Before I started in the club business, I was managing smaller independent restaurant groups, you know, so three or five restaurants, as the chef for the group, so to speak. After being recruited to a club, uh, it was kind of natural for me, uh just to go ahead and be the chef and the chef and the food and beverage director and the chef and the catering director all at the same time.
Speaker 2:You know, and uh, it's a lot of work just natural progression through the continuing education that cmaa offers you know, uh, and earning my CCM and stuff, and preparing me to go ahead and continue to evolve and take on some new role, a new role and responsibilities.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when did you? When was that moment when you're like I'm not just running food and beverage programs anymore, you know, I'm running an entire operation. You know, when did you stop thinking like a chef and more of like a GM? Like when did that start and why?
Speaker 2:I would say that started about five years ago and I just had some opportunities at the last club I was at to step in and take on some roles as natural attrition occurred and then being able to, you know I had. I had redesigned several kitchens and gone through all the planning and processes with that several kitchens and gone through all the planning and processes with that. And then, as projects were starting to come up at the club, you know, although different, it's, it's the same. You know it's it, it's furniture instead of stoves and ovens, but it's the planning process is the same. Expectations are the same.
Speaker 2:You know, knowing that you have to just stay in constant communication with the folks doing the work, try not to change plans because that's just going to slow everything down. You know which is anyone who's run any project within a private club knows that. Keep it. It's generally not the general managers that are trying trying to change the plans, it's membership changes at the last minute, uh, but you want to minimize those because of cost overruns you know and uh, which members tend not to like at the end of a project, you know.
Speaker 1:So yeah, do you remember any like advice you got early on that actually helped?
Speaker 2:in in my chef career. I was very lucky that the first chef that, uh, I really worked for, um joe castro uh god bless his soul. He's passed on now, uh, but he taught everyone who ventured through him. He taught us how to have really high expectations but to deliver on those expectations by teaching and mentoring. You know, not by. I know Chef made for TV. You see a lot of yelling and screaming and all of that, but if you don't want people to work for you, behave in that manner.
Speaker 1:You know, and that is.
Speaker 2:It has always been that way. If you want to keep good service staff, if you want to keep great kitchen staff and you want people to evolve and grow into positions that will come available, you need to have those really high expectations. But you need to get to that point by teaching and mentoring people and allowing them to be the best they can be for themselves. You know so.
Speaker 1:So is it kind of like, when you have that person coming in, who might be some you know now I won't say rowdy, but like you know more, that tv personality, that loud, whatever do you kind of pull them aside, like listen, we don't do that here, you know. So is that what you mean by try to like mentor? It's like, hey, like listen, this is you know off, and then either like buckle up or well, and, and that would be yeah yeah you know, danny, that would be generally with a more experienced person you're bringing in.
Speaker 2:But I'm talking, you know, at the basic level. You know, as new service staff come in right, you know the expectation, uh, especially when they're young kids. You know, in kentucky now you can hire an 18-year-old to be a server You're going to need to spend.
Speaker 1:Sorry, is that like a new thing? Do they usually have to be older?
Speaker 2:Yes, Before COVID you had to be 21.
Speaker 1:Really.
Speaker 2:Or I should say 20 in a day to serve alcohol. Now you can be 18 to serve, and that was due to the service industry struggling to find staff. You know there are very few 18 year olds but frankly, there's very few 21 year olds who have a lot of wine knowledge, you know. So you're going to have to spend a lot of time with those individuals in terms of building that You're going to have. You know you're going to have to arrange the education for them.
Speaker 2:When new line cooks come in even if they're, they're coming as a graduated culinary school, say they may have some basic knowledge, but how do they apply that then, you know, when they get on the line and expecting people, you know what you really need to expect from people is that they're a little bit better every day, right, that they're making progress. You need to acknowledge that progress with them. You know you can't just leave a line or a service staff and say, hey, great job everybody. You need to be very sure that you say great job for doing this particular task. Or you know, you succeeded more than you did yesterday on this and great job in terms of that, you know. So pairing that praise along with what can we do better, you know, and allowing individuals to start taking responsibility for themselves. When you get staff to take responsibility for their own actions, shocking the results that will come from that you know, so.
Speaker 1:So what are you doing? So now I'm so like, now I'm interested. What are you doing that you can hire 18 year olds? And how are you training them on wine, because technically, they're not really supposed to even be able to know what it's like. So how are you training them to engage and interact with the members, to still have a nice experience with that wine or, you know, with those wines or with that education?
Speaker 2:Absolutely, you're correct. We cannot have them sit down and do a wine tasting. However, you know, and I think you know, a manager is going to sell that higher, higher end wine. Most likely they're going to go out and they're going to do the bottle service. Uh, however, glass pours things of that nature, just teaching them the different varietals.
Speaker 2:And you're going to train them specifically to your wine list, right, you know, to begin with those younger people, the last thing you want is for a server to walk to a table and someone say you know what are your wines by the glass and then not be able to at least run through some of those you know. Do you like white wine? You know, I know we have Sauvignon Blanc, chardonnay, all of those sorts of things. Uh, so you, you're correct, you wouldn't be. You're not training them to consume the wine, but you're training them on tasting notes, on things of that nature, understanding, you know the, the basic wine knowledge. And then, when you need an actual trained individual, then a manager or whatever would be going over there to sell a higher-end bottle of wine to somebody.
Speaker 1:So it's what? Just taking a little bit of time every single day, just five, ten minutes, hey, here's just about this. Here's this about this just slowly dripping education to them.
Speaker 2:Slowly dripping and bringing in the wine reps. Wine reps love to come in and talk to them, slowly dripping and bringing in the wine reps. Wine reps love to come in and talk to staff. You know, and they'll come, for, you know, pre-shift meetings, 20 minutes to sit down. They obviously want your staff pouring their wines, you know, and so leaning on your liquor and wine purveyors to come in and give that, give that background. Uh, you know it. It should be part of their onboarding and training process to just getting getting them exposed to it and exposing them just a little bit at a time, uh, and repeatedly.
Speaker 1:Yeah. You know so you, you have a, you have a very you know well-vers the biggest mistake private clubs make when it comes to their F&Bs being in it. Now you know, and your whole background, you know what's your philosophy when it comes to F&B and clubs.
Speaker 2:Well, the biggest problem with F&B and clubs, which has always been, is you know why don't we make a profit? And if you're running your F&B operations appropriately in a private club private member-owned club, right, not a for-profit club you should be losing money because it's an amenity. However, you know you should only be asking the membership to subsidize that to a point. So you still need to obviously very much manage the expenses that go along with that. But if you're running it appropriately as an amenity, then you're going to lose money. You just don't want to be losing too much and you don't want to lose too little because oftentimes that means that your menu is not satisfying the members needs.
Speaker 1:Interesting. So yeah, it's about finding that nice sweet spot.
Speaker 2:It's absolutely about finding that nice sweet spot yeah.
Speaker 1:It's one of those. You probably don't. It it's for each one it's a little bit different. You don't know it until you've been there a year or two, sometimes three.
Speaker 2:You know you finally get your feet wet, kind of you know set in place uh, yeah, yeah, each club has has a different uh, uh, say they'll, they'll stomach a different amount. The members you know as to how much that is, you know and uh, um, a lot of that is what is their, what is their menu? Price sensitivity, like you know do they really want a great hamburger that still costs nine dollars today, with the side of fries, even though you know, you know, at your local fast food restaurant it's going to cost more than that? But they still want an eight ounce burger. They just want it there. They may say, just raise my dues, I just don't want to see it on my bill. You know so. But you're correct, each club is individual and unique in that way, and you have to have a clear understanding of what the membership wants and will tolerate.
Speaker 1:So Bourbon GM? I mean, I think I can kind of understand the why this happened and where it happened, but you know, you're, you're an executive bourbon steward, what, what is that? Where it happened? But you're an executive bourbon steward.
Speaker 2:What is that? So that is basically a bourbon sommelier, so to speak, not quite as far, you know, as a master sommelier, but tasting along with, do the same, olfactory sense training. So you got all the little vials, yeah, you learn to distill. So you go through the entire distilling process, looking at storage of bourbon, where in warehouses they're stored, how you turn those, how you move them throughout warehouses to affect the end flavor, charring, levels, of barrels. So mash builds all of that along with just a lot of history of the industry you know. So it is a huge segment of the economy of Kentucky, which I call home, and likely will for a very long time and one of my joys of driving through work to work.
Speaker 2:I commute about an hour a day and in that process I drive by three major distilleries and as I'm on the highway many mornings, depending on the weather condition and which way the wind blows, I can pass through and smell those mash builds cooking, you know. I can pass through and smell those mash builds cooking, you know, and so it's a beautiful happy place to smell some bourbon being made and watch horses run along fence lines as you drive to work.
Speaker 2:So, that sounds a lot better than driving to and from New York City, and you know that's basically where as a child, where I'm from, that's where my family is all from, just on the other side of the Holland and Lincoln Tunnels. I much prefer it here also than in that area. I'll go visit all the time. Love to visit.
Speaker 1:I'm sure it's mentally a lot more relaxing, like going to work. You're not already amped up?
Speaker 2:you're like, oh, look at the horses and this smells nice like yeah, it is it, it it is meditation, basically as you go in, you know so yeah, yeah, that is so cool.
Speaker 1:So like, are there are, how? Like? Are there like a lot of executive bourbon stewards Like, was that like a nice little selling point as you came into a new club, were they like, oh, we kind of like that. You have all of the other stuff, but knowing your bourbons is also like a nice touch.
Speaker 2:Obviously in this area, in this region. You know I had earned it, I, I guess it was about six years ago and then, uh, so so sorry so so, almost before, like I think now bourbon's like even even more popular.
Speaker 1:So it was like before bourbon became like super popular, like I feel like you were like ahead of the curve with it.
Speaker 2:Yes, I won't say that I started my journey of appreciation of bourbon before I turned 21, but I may have tasted it once or twice when I was in college here in Lexington and back in Louisville. But the bourbon industry as a whole has evolved so much throughout my lifetime, going from more of an afterthought to obviously a very premium product within the marketplace, and it has really helped the economy of our state as it has become such a high-end product and allowed for certain areas. And it benefits our farmers. You know the amount of corn and barley and stuff that they're growing for it is very helpful for the economy and wheat that they're growing, for it is very helpful for the economy and wheat.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what, um, for clubs who want to start enhancing their bourbon program, how do they start? I think like a lot of clubs are doing it more and you can kind of see some are gradually, some are even making their own kind of like well, I'd say more turning more like the men's rooms into, uh, the men's rooms into the bourbon area sometimes when they have the space. But I think a lot of clubs are getting into a lot more bourbon experiences and hopping on the wagon. Also, how can clubs or like, what's your point of view or your experience or advice for clubs that want to start getting more bourbons and enhancing their program?
Speaker 2:Just grow it gradually. Don't try to, you know, go from having 10 bourbons to 50 bourbons overnight. You know, grow it gradually. Introduce them to the members. You might be able to start a club, uh, of members who want to come in for those tastings, you know, pairing them with appetizers or a full dinner, even Um but uh and and the your liquor purveyors will also come in for those events, because not only are they going to sell more at the club, but they're hoping that your members go and buy a bottle at the liquor store. And so do it gradually. Make sure, in addition, that your bar staff is able to make the cocktails that would go along with those cocktails that would go along with those, and that, as you bring in bourbon, you're going to bring in different flavors of bitters to go with those cocktails. You know, gradually increase, always when you're introducing people to bourbon, a new bourbon drinker, you know.
Speaker 2:Denny was a new bourbon drinker and went with me to the bar and said Kevin, you know, show me something.
Speaker 2:I am not going to introduce you to bourbon with a glass of Pappy Van Winkle, even though everybody knows that name. You're going to take a taste weeded bourbon, whether that be like a weller, a maker's mark, basil hayden is one of the favorites that I like to introduce people it's a little bit lower alcohol by volume, obviously, and and to teach people how to appreciate bourbon and and just sip on it Neat, you generally need to start at a lower proof and then you work your way up to the 120 proofs and above, and even that you need to learn how to drink that. So it's a process for bourbon, you know you first you smell it, it and then and then you take away, and then you just let it touch your lips and then you, you let it take away and then you take a little sip, and so you need to numb your, numb your palate before you actually even begin drinking it you know, to enjoy it appropriately so yeah, now that's uh.
Speaker 1:So when you say start it gradually, what do you think is like you know if you can like expand on that, like, like, a like, a little bit like. When you say it's like you know how long should it take, is it like a new bottle, a month to a month, Like, like, what does? What does gradual mean?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I would you know wherever your starting point is. You know, I would try to probably you know. And then that following year you could double that again. You know. So if you have, say, 10 to 12 bottles currently on your bourbon menu then, or on your bourbon list, then by the end of the year you could have 20 to 24. By the following year you've got 40 to 48 bottles on there, you know. And so when I left my last club I've been at my new club for a year in my new position when I left my last club we were generally somewhere between 135 and 150 bottles of bourbon, you know, to choose from.
Speaker 2:And that was depending on how long the allocations last all those special bottles, so and it took, though, several years to get it there. It was not an overnight process. You need to understand that money is money sitting on a shelf, so you're likely going to have to decrease, as you increase, your inventory of bourbon, you may need to be decreasing your inventory of other spirits so that you're meeting those financial goals.
Speaker 1:What's a good, do you think, amount spend per year on? I'm sure it's all relative. I'm trying to get at like, like, what are your top three bourbons every club should have? Like, if you can, if you can lay the land of, like the law, every club has to have these bottles on every shelf. What are those three bourbons?
Speaker 2:So, depending on where you are in the country, but if we were to say the entire country, you know the easiest way to look at it is the different distilleries, because each distillery has their own mash build. Okay, so my actual favorite bourbons, um, uh, come from the Heaven Hill distillery. Uh, so Henry McKenna and Elijah Craig uh, barrel proof are my, are my two favorite and and I'm talking bourbons that you can go to the store and buy Okay, not, we'll take Pappy Van Winkle out, because the likelihood is you're not going to get it, but you can buy these bourbons throughout the year and that profile from their mash build I just enjoy very much now. So, each individual distillery after you start tasting from those distilleries, you're going to start picking up on those tasting notes that come from those mash builds, because really what's changing those bourbons is what warehouse they're going into, what level of that warehouse. You know how many years they're sitting, whether it's in a hotter area, cooler area, but most likely they all have a very similar char on the barrel. Also, you know, and so I think that's you know you need to pull from those different distilleries so you don't want to just go to say Buffalo Trace, which is going to have a very large portfolio. You don't want to pull your entire bourbon list out of that Buffalo Trace distillery. You know you'd want probably heavy on Buffalo Trace because that's where your wellers are going to come from.
Speaker 2:You know obviously your Buffalo Trace because that's where your wellers are going to come from. Obviously your Buffalo Trace. They make all the Pappies, blantons, names like that that people are going to recognize. But you're also going to want to pull stuff from wild turkey. So you're going to want to get your Russell Tans Wild turkey makes a great rye. Russell Tans Wild Turkey Makes a Great Rye. Then the things I mentioned from Heaven Hill with the Elijah Craigs and the Henry McKenna's and then Maker's Mark is a wonderful distillery. That is that bourbon. Although I drink very little of it now that they have the cask strength I could make a cocktail out of it. But it is such a great introductory bourbon for people and once you get people, all you want to do is get people drinking bourbon and then they will naturally continue to enjoy them and try other ones. So I think that's the best advice I can give someone on that.
Speaker 1:Okay. So, all that being said, if you had your choice, every club had to have these three bottles. What are your three favorite bottles?
Speaker 2:Three favorite bottles. Well, I gave you two Elijah Craig barrel proof. Henry McKenna, tan, and then I would say, well, or full proof, if you can get that. That would be the three bottles that you would have to have.
Speaker 1:And how come.
Speaker 2:Just there. I think all of those can be drank alone, and the fact that all of those can be made into a very good cocktail.
Speaker 1:Versatility.
Speaker 2:And you should also be able to get them, which is a very important. You have to be able to get them, you know.
Speaker 1:And then if I had a bourbon that would make the alternate list, that would probably russell's 10 year out of wild turkey so are there any, or have you been in any instances where somebody orders a cocktail, a very nice bourbon, very expensive, rare bourbon, in a like cocktail, so to speak, or in like a mixed drink? Do you ever, have you ever stopped anybody?
Speaker 2:you mean like, can you put diet coke on that, or?
Speaker 1:something like that, where, like it doesn't matter, like they just want it, and if that's it's their money, they're spending it right. Do you?
Speaker 2:advise If you want to put. You know you'll watch people with a very nice glass of wine put an ice cube in it. You know, and, yes, you just smile and walk away away. You know, and um, um, I, I don't. Bourbon is not, and one of the first things they teach you when you're going through your executive bourbon program is that bourbon is not set up to be about snobbery. We want everyone to enjoy it. We, we want you to enjoy it, whether it's that you like it neat, whether it's that you like it neat with just a little bit of orange peel in it, or if you need just a touch of water in it, it's. How does it translate to your palate? How do you enjoy it and what will bring you back again for another glass?
Speaker 1:I like that a lot. I like that a lot. I like that a lot. This was awesome. Thank you so much for coming on this was such a good episode. I love it.
Speaker 2:I love it. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Hope you all enjoyed that episode. I know I did. If you are enjoying the content, a like, share, subscribe. Anything you can do to help move the channel forward means the world. If you would like to download the ultimate comedy night blueprint how to knock it out of the park every single time head on over to dennycorbycom slash comedy guide. That's this episode. I'm your host, denny Corby. Until next time, catch y'all on the flippity flip.
