Private Club Radio Show
Welcome to the Private Club Radio Show, the industry's weekly source for education, news, trends, and other current developments in the world of private clubs.
Hosted by the talented entertainer and industry expert, Denny Corby,
the podcast offers a unique perspective on the private club industry, featuring expert guests, product spotlights, predictions, and more.
Whether you're involved in a golf club management, yacht clubs, athletic clubs, or business clubs, the Private Club Radio Show is the essential podcast for
anyone seeking valuable insights and information on the latest trends and developments in the private club industry.
Private Club Radio Show
454: Today’s Top Membership Risks w/ Dan Klimek Member Vetting
Who's really trying to join your club?
What secrets lie beneath that polished application and those glowing references?
Dan Klimek from Kennis Member Vetting pulls back the curtain on what truly comprehensive member screening can reveal and the results might shock you.
Traditional background checks barely scratch the surface.
Regulated by employment laws, they're limited in scope and depth. But when vetting potential club members, these restrictions don't apply, allowing for investigations that peel back layers of carefully constructed personas to reveal who applicants truly are when they believe no one's watching.
The conversation explores fascinating current trends emerging in member applications: pandemic PPP loan fraud that's only now surfacing, increasingly polarized political personas that might clash with club culture, and those mysterious "ghost accounts" – hidden online profiles where seemingly normal applicants participate in fringe communities. Perhaps most concerning are those joining with ulterior motives – not for the camaraderie or shared interests, but to gain access to wealthy members for business opportunities.
Most revealing are the detailed examples shared throughout: body camera footage showing how applicants behave during police encounters (a preview of potential club behavior), individuals maintaining completely separate online identities, and those with extensive litigation histories they've carefully omitted from applications. These real-world cases demonstrate how one problematic member can drive others away from facilities, causing financial and cultural damage far exceeding the cost of proper vetting.
While many clubs overlook this crucial step in membership screening, more are recognizing its value – particularly smaller clubs where each member represents a larger percentage of the community. With service options ranging from basic packages to comprehensive investigations, clubs of all sizes can now access professional vetting that protects their unique culture and ensures new members enhance rather than detract from the experience.
Ready to discover what might be hiding in your applicant pool?
Visit membervetting.com to request a sample report and see firsthand how thorough screening could protect your club's future.
Follow us on the socials
Private Club Radio Instagram
Private Club Radio Linkedin
Denny Corby Instagram
Denny Corby Linkedin
Hey everybody, welcome to the Private Club Radio Show, where we give you the scoop on all things private golf and country clubs, from mastering leadership and management, food and beverage excellence, member engagement secrets, board governance and everything in between, all while keeping it fun and light. Whether you're a club veteran just getting your feet wet or somewhere in the middle, you are in the right place. I'm your host, denny Corby. Welcome to the show. You know that one member at your club who just doesn't fit, the one that everybody quietly avoids, or the one who somehow turns every event into their own drama. Now imagine if you can spot that person before they even get into the club, before they even get a member number. That's what this episode is about.
Speaker 1:I am thrilled to be bringing on Dan Klemek from Kennis Member Vetting. His team digs into the past and they dig past the polished applications, they dig past the handshakes, they dig past the glowing references and they find out who is really trying to join your club. And sometimes the stuff that they find will just absolutely blow your mind. And in this conversation, in this episode, we get into the biggest trends that Dan and their team is seeing right now, from pandemic PPP loan frauds that are still surfacing and now coming up a lot more. And we're not just go in, it's not just the obvious you know the guy who bought the Ferraris, you know but it goes beyond that. We dive into politics, which is now more polarized and loud than ever, with online posts that can clash hard with your club's culture. And, even more importantly, these so-called ghost accounts, which we've talked about here. We're going to talk about them a little bit more.
Speaker 1:And these are the profiles in these niche forum people that people think are never going to be found. And guess what? Kenes member vetting can find these profiles. And it's not just the large clubs and these big clubs that are doing this. A lot of smaller clubs are taking their vetting a lot more serious now. They're getting a lot more thorough, if not more, than some of these bigger clubs, because it's important and they realize how important every single new member is to the club, and one bad egg can really do some damage, especially some clubs that are doing these membership drives, which can be a minefield when you're bringing in dozens and dozens of brand new members in a month or two all at once. So if you ever wondered what's really possible when you pull back the curtain on an applicant, or how past behaviors predict future behavior inside your clubhouse.
Speaker 1:This episode is for you. If you and your club are not doing the vetting that you think it should be done, or if you're open or want to do maybe a little bit more member vetting, please head on over to membervettingcom. Fill out the form. Dan Paul or someone from the team will get in touch with you. Even if you want to see one of these sample reports of what they find on applicants, head on over to membervettingcom. Reach out, get one of these reports. You're going to be mind. It's unbelievable the stuff that they can uncover. So I am so stoked for this one. Private Club Radio listeners, let's welcome back to the show Dan Klemek.
Speaker 2:The analogy is that generally, you never know how many layers deep someone goes right. You have the surface layer that they introduced to you and that you see on the outside, but as we start peeling those layers back and looking at the background, looking at the history, looking at the things that we can find online, it can be endless. I mean, some of these accounts go very, very deep and very far back and are fairly well hidden. When we get to them, you go this was 10 layers deep. I don't know that we necessarily call it that, but that's kind of what it feels like. So that analogy has worked for a long time because, it's very true, you never know what you're going to get when you start feeling the layers back.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, what's the average amount of layers that you peel, or normal? What's the normal?
Speaker 2:You know, your average person has what they display to the public professionally. Generally that's layer layer one and that's what they want you to see. Then there's the family layer. When you start getting into the personal accounts and then from there, if they are someone that has secondary accounts let's say their social media accounts twitter x, instagram, tiktok, all the good ones if they start having those secondary accounts, those tend to layer and spin off really quickly.
Speaker 2:Because if you find a secondary account that's into this one focus area whether it's political or it's some other weird lifestyle thing that they're into those tend to lead to other layers where like, okay, now we know what you're into, now we know to look over here, because you mentioned something over here and it's just keep going and going and going until you get to the bottom of it. But listen, your average member is two layers deep and it's their professionals, their family, they seem to match up and they're good people. It's the ones that you catch where you're like well, we just found something very unusual and we have a long way to go to figure this one out.
Speaker 1:We're midway through 2026. Has there been any? I know, I know I feel like the beginning was super slow and all of a sudden it was like hi, summer, but as we're in the 2026, has there been any common? The thing is not the word, but has there been anything that you guys have been finding more common now, or maybe into 2026, maybe even the past year or so, that maybe hasn't been common in the past? You're like oh, this has been coming up a lot, or like, or we've been seeing a lot more like. So in my head I'm thinking now like I don't ask why, but I get sucked down the YouTube rabbit hole of like random stuff and one of the things I enjoy listening to is like body cam footage and like I don't I don't know why with doing stuff, it's just like background noise, uh, but like, so I I've seen a lot of like the covid pandemic, the checks and the money. There's a lot of like, a lot of that fraud's coming up now. Has that been?
Speaker 2:has that been a thing that's been common and, like what else, has been popping up three things come to mind, and and two of them are are, you know, investigation related one. You hit the nail on the head. So the governments both uh, you know, the state and the federal government are finally catching up on COVID relief dollars. So that those PPP loans there are investigations going on in every state and every county on people that took those loans out for non-existent businesses or businesses that they started in order to get that loan money. So you're seeing a lot of people who have these PPP loan fraud cases. Now we have seen a lot of those where it's like okay, you know, in 2019, you had two employees, but all of a sudden, for the PPP loan, you're claiming 25 employees. You took a $2 million loan out. Now the government's going. What did you do with that? Because the business doesn't seem to exist. So, yeah, that is a huge theme.
Speaker 2:The other theme, and I think since we talked last, is political Things. The politics have, you know, wherever you're at, they've shifted. They've gone far left, far right. That has created some online, some heated online content that we find, and you know, I mean, let's face it Some of those people, no matter what side they're on, can be difficult to be around right, and so when they're posting these things online, the political posts have gone through the roof. I mean, people have taken sides and the ones that are vocal are loud and vocal and, again, not sometimes the best members, or at least somebody you should be aware of. Depending on what your club's culture is like, sometimes that's not a great fit. So that's what we've seen.
Speaker 2:Those would be the two main things in the past year. I mean, listen, the ghost accounts are crazy. I mean, when you find them, denny, you wouldn't believe. I mean, you could meet someone, have dinner with them, play around a golf with them, and they're totally normal. You'd hang out with them, you'd have beers with them, and then you would look at this report and go, oh my gosh, they're into that, that is something that they're into and it will eventually come up when they're members. I mean those those types of things that we find we'll just leave it at, strange lifestyle choices, uh, outside of the public view, but that tend to make their way online. There are forums, there are groups, there are things that people belong to that you would never believe, right? Mark the ceo, you're like cool guy had beers with him yesterday. He shot a 78. It was fun. And then you're like we should admit him. And then you look at our report. You go oh my gosh, oh my gosh he's a no, it's called furry denny.
Speaker 2:Furries, oh damn it. Come on, you knew that um.
Speaker 1:You knew that you found my account.
Speaker 2:You found my account, the animal in the background there and now okay listen, listen okay you're.
Speaker 1:You're furry curious, so, okay, time out. These are all things. So these are some just books I like and this is stuff from like shows and and just stuff. This was so look, if you get all defensive now, no, that was actually a.
Speaker 1:Very curious, very curious. I was doing a club show in Florida and they said hey, what do you want in your green room? So to me I don't take anything serious. I was like bottle of vodka, bottle of wine, a charcuterie board, puppies. I just started listing off all this stuff and, sure enough, when I, when I got into like the green room, there was like the stuffed animal dog, there was like small, like nips of vodka, there was like a charcuterie, but it was really funny uh, just like, whatever the rolling stones get, I want that uh, well, and then actually total side note.
Speaker 1:Do you know where the green m&ms came from or why that started?
Speaker 1:I do not so I don't know if it was the rolling stones one of the bands in in the writer said, uh, a bowl of green m&ms. And now, mind you, this was. This was back 80s, 90s maybe, and they did that for a very specific reason. There are people who put stuff in there in their rider for like bs, just just because they want it, but that was the tour manager. Because the tour manager put that on there, because if they showed up, because back in the day you couldn't just buy green m&ms, like now you can just buy the colors, as is like a whole bag of whatever I've been to vegas, I know yeah, so they did that because if the tour manager went into the green room when they first showed up and there was a bowl of green m&ms, that means that they had somebody read the rider.
Speaker 1:They had somebody sit there and separate all the m&ms, just to put the green one. So now they know it's probably going to be a safer venue. Everything's going to be set up properly. Like it, that was like, that was their little like trigger yeah, that was their like little trigger to go like, because now if he shows up and it's just a regular bull, it's like gosh. I really got to go and let me double check this, let me make sure all that. So I thought that was.
Speaker 2:It's like in college when you sneak a bizarre sentence into your essay just to see if the professor reads it. You got a 30-page essay and you sneak a sentence in there like this professor's awful, and then you wait to see if he says anything, because then you know he didn't read it. So, yeah, no, that's no. So the furry thing is very real and you know you can use your imagination as to what else there is out there, outside of the furry realm. But once you find something like that and I'll give you a more mundane example, more mundane example If I find out that you're a big car person, you have a whole bunch of pictures of your, you know pick a car. You know we're going racing in a few weeks BMW, for example. There are entire forums and cultures and websites and things dedicated to that. So I now know that about you. And then I start down that rabbit hole and I want to see are we street racing? Are we doing things nefariously? Who are we hanging out with? What kind of clubs and what kind of places do we go to? Because that leads to other things too and it leads to connections. It leads to things that you do and that's pretty mundane. I mean most car people are. I've got a. I've got a Wrangler. I'm on Wrangler forums because it's a, it's a nineties Wrangler, so trying to keep that thing alive and running is you need the forums, right? So there are things that you know people are into as hobbies and you find those things and you go down that rabbit hole and figure out what those really mean. Sometimes those hobbies are questionable at best. And then you, you know, you go down those, those rabbit holes and those sites and those forums and those things that are not traditionally found on Google. I mean, you know we joke all the time we talk about the analogy of the onion, but the iceberg right, and I've got a great picture of it somewhere where you've got this iceberg, where you've got just the tippy top showing on the surface, that's Google. Google only indexes about 5% to 6% of the entire internet. So that other 95% call it is not indexed by Google. So your average person isn't going to find those things, and that includes things like forums and other strange sites that are considered on. I would say the deep web would be the best way to describe it. But it's that, under the surface information that we dredge up and find where all of this information is. So that's really the benefit is finding all of it and going back to our trends.
Speaker 2:So we have the political, we've got the weird alternative lifestyle stuff, and the PPP loans are a big one. I mean they speak to a lot of fraud. I mean generally, when you see those, it means whatever that person's primary business was was failing or had a problem, and there's lawsuits and litigation and that was a way to get some quick cash infused into a business where it wasn't necessarily legitimate. And then you have the crazy ones where it's like you know, guy who claimed 30 employees and bought two Ferraris over COVID with PPP money. Well, that's a more obvious one. Those people were found first. Now they're going after the ones that are more questionable, like did you really have 100 employees and need a $10 million PPP loan, or maybe it was that inflated and they're going back and getting those things.
Speaker 2:The third trend is more business related.
Speaker 2:On our end is that we have seen a lot more small clubs contacting us, and when I say small, I mean by actual number of members, but also from a cost standpoint. Those clubs are contacting us more regularly and finding value in what we're doing because they are smaller. So we kind of had a target range of the type of club that was a good fit for us originally and being new to the industry only a couple of years ago a few years ago trying to learn things on the fly. But now we're finding that some of these smaller clubs are just as interested and so we're able to put together really nice packages for them too that are a little bit more cost conscious but still give them a much more in-depth view of what that applicant's going to be like.
Speaker 2:And the other going along with that is membership drives, which was something that I had never heard of before. But sometimes clubs will do membership drives. So they'll say you know, for the month of July we're going to try to sign up 100 new members and we're going to publish stuff and advertise. And what that turns out to be is 100 new members that no one knows they know nothing about, right. So we've got 100 members of the general public that no one has referred. They're just people that applied, and now we really feel like we're under the gun to get more information about these people before we admit them in.
Speaker 1:So those are just some of the biggest trends that I've seen over the last year, year and a half thing before we connected and chatted, you know, with paul, like years ago, and just a story of how you know the whole thing just came about when he, the a club that he was a member of, um asked like hey, with your business, can you do this for us? And like, and when he was telling me that I just assumed most clubs did a more thorough background, which to me is mind-blowing.
Speaker 2:It is, and so the two things that we run into the most are clubs that don't do anything right. They say, well, we've met the person, they must be great. But my story of meeting someone and playing golf with them doesn't always apply, because there are some strange things in the background and the other clubs are doing what you would consider a pre-employment background check if you were to get a job. And they run a background check, which the boring part of what I have to do is explain the difference, and that is the pre-employment background check is so heavily regulated by the FCRA because it's an offer of employment, so you can only look at this much of the person's background legally before you make a hiring decision. With private members there's no protections there. You can look at whatever you want to. We get to do our act. What we can actually do in our wheelhouses is dig really, really deep. So you had also mentioned the body cam footage. I would mention that to you because you know body cam footage is. You know, let's say, body cam footage is about 10 years old and the technology of police departments using them Almost every department now has them. I'm sure there's smaller departments over the country that don't, but most police departments have these. They are public record by and large. There's a couple of states that have issues where they don't consider them public record or they're harder to get, but by and large, they're public records.
Speaker 2:The example I always give is somebody with a DUI arrest. Right, let's say it's a 2018 DUI arrest and you look at that on paper and you say, okay, dui arrest, they did 30 hours of community service and that was it. That's the last number. Right, most of us know somebody that's had a DUI arrest. Let's face it and we say, okay, that's a normal guy problem, normal person problem. Looks like they moved on, no big deal.
Speaker 2:The question is, when you get that body cam footage and they're absolutely insane and they have to be tased and thrown in the back of the police car and all they want to talk about is how important they are and who they are and who they know and how awful the cops are and I pay your salary when that's on video. That's a different person than your buddy jim that just had one too many and drove home and got caught got caught and just took his punishment, moved on versus somebody that went absolutely bananas when they were intoxicated. So those are two different member types and that's the depth and the detail and the level that we give you. So the body camphor is just easier to get, it's faster to get and it's pretty much a standard practice when we have something like that.
Speaker 2:That's happened in the recent past because it can give you a lot of insight into who that person is. If they sit quiet, they think they take their time and they're just a normal guy that had a bad day, totally normal stuff, and the club gets to look at that and decide if that's the right personality, the right fit for them. So yeah, body cam footage is awesome and it's come a long way in the last 10 years, even in the last couple of years, I think know where we are in Metro Detroit almost every single department has it and DPD was like the last to adopt it, but now that they have it, it's been a really, really good tool for us. So that's a really nice feature to have.
Speaker 1:And I've said this before too, and it's not up to you, you don't decide who comes in, the club still decides all that. You just present all the fact.
Speaker 1:You just give all the information, just all the findings and it's up to them to decide, because because they can still and I'm sure, and I'm sure you don't know, because you don't, you don't really follow up or have like a need to care to follow up, but I'm sure you've probably sent stuff into a club and go. There's no way that that person's getting in. Sure I'm sure they sure as hell got in that that person's getting in sure.
Speaker 2:I'm sure they sure as hell got in well. So here's the thing is if you're using us, then you care about who you're letting in. It's very true and so, yes, I will give you the the examples. Yes, there are times where we're like there's no way that this person's admitted. But it is really up, it is 100 up to club. We highlight anything that needs to be looked at. So your average report is very mundane. It's Bill, he's a chiropractor and he's got a nice family and he lives down the street and everything he said on his application because we get that too everything is set as application is accurate. Verifying the information that was provided to us is a big part of it too. So if the person says I'm this, that and the other, and I'm on this board and I'm this person and I'm this and I went to this school and I know these people, and it's on that application, we verify that those things are accurate, because people will lie on those things. Like any other type of application, people don't always tell the truth. So, yes, there are times where we send the reports.
Speaker 2:It's subjective. One club might say, yeah, we'll overlook that and it's fine. One club might say absolutely not. One club might have a conversation with that person and say, hey, listen, you had four alcohol arrests in the last five years. This appears to be a problem at something that we just can't have. We can't tolerate that here. We don't want you getting pulled over and getting another DUI after leaving the club. That's a bad look for us. Local police departments don't like that when that happens. So it might be a conversation. Then there's the high-level ones, where not only do we highlight everything, like we always do, you might get a phone call from me or from Janine or someone in our office, and the phone call is going to be to actually help walk you through what you're about to read, because there are some things that are harder to explain in words on a report. So we have that customer services there and it's like hey, okay, you're going to get this report. I want you to open it with me when you get it. Let's go through it together.
Speaker 2:Sometimes it's a matter of let me explain a little bit better than we can on paper how we got to that profile online is your applicant, because it's sometimes very difficult. We had to go through seven different avenues to prove that that profile, that some random bizarre name online is your person, but let me walk you through it so you know. Bizarre name online is your person, but let me walk you through it, so you know. Or this is a really weird one and I need to explain to you what this means because I had to google it and I was.
Speaker 2:It was awful to google and I didn't want to have to google it, but I googled what it is and this is what the person's into and I didn't want to write on paper necessarily. So I've had to have those conversations. I've had to have those conversations. I've had to have those conversations where it's like you know, using your furry in the background I'm not going to assume that every membership director or general manager is up to speed on local furry terms, so I may have to Google some things and explain what the person's into and say you know, if the club has stuffed animals laying around, you might have to hide those.
Speaker 2:And there's nothing wrong with being what people are into no, not at all, and I'm using that as an example, because most of the things we see are a little bit more devious than that. Um, but you know, I'm pretty sure you're a pg podcast, so we'll leave it at that.
Speaker 1:No, I mean no, I mean this is. I mean this is, this is a niche show and this is, this is a very I mean. To me this is like an important topic because, like clubs are a very important and sacred place and, you know, not every club is for every person and that that always kills me too is, you know, the clubs that just let anybody in and like and I guess there's a place for those. But it's like a club to me like has a personality, like a, it's like a living, breathing thing. You know more or less, and it has, like it's it's a thing and you get those right people in there. Because you know, I've performed at clubs where you you can tell like it is a vibe and it's a place and there's others you can be like I'm just a little off here like just like mismatch or something. Um, and then, and real quick, if people want a sample of a report, can they go to membervettingcom and request a sample report of what a report would look like. That that can get.
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. We've got a lot on the site. We've got an inquiry form that comes straight to Paul and I and one of us will answer right away. We also have a white paper that we've written on some statistics about membership and about vetting and some examples between what you would get in a pre-employment report versus a chemist report, and then also you can request a sample report on there. We're probably going to call you and talk about the level that you're looking at, because we have many levels that we can perform the service on. So we can go really deep. We can put a budget one together. We kind of got a good range where we are. So we've got a lot of sample reports sample reports on good stuff, bad stuff, all sorts of different stuff. But just to give you a feel of what you're going to get as a dossier investigation on your member applicant to say, this is what kind of person you're dealing with.
Speaker 2:And, to your point, the club vibe I mean the like-mindedness and having a good culture at a club is huge. I think we talked about this last time on the podcast, but my example still holds true is every time I talk to a GM, they always go oh, that one guy or, oh, that one lady, right, but they're a bummer and they bring everybody else down when they're in the room, when they're around, nobody wants to be around them. They keep members from showing up and they cause problems, right. And so that one member story. And I tell that every time I speak, every time I do a presentation, because it does not fail, when I'm meeting with people, meeting with GM, the membership directors, that that's exactly what they will say Well, we got this one guy. So still holds true, still my favorite example, but that's that. That speaks to the vibe and the culture of the club a lot.
Speaker 1:And do you so, and when you find information, you just don't show the bad information. You find the good stuff and showcase that too. So I'm I would assume that on the flip side, I'm sure you probably have had people who, like on paper, you're like, oh, they just seem like average and boring. And then you start digging. You're like these are phenomenal people. Like they donate hundreds of thousands that no one knows about and they're like these philanthropic and just like ever giving amazing. You know superheroes. And you're like why, where did this come from? Like how come they're not showcasing that?
Speaker 2:100 and for for us, you know it's interesting because it's not, it's never personal. We don't know the people, we have nothing against them ever and and so we're just trying to show what they're all about as best possible. And, yes, 100. So our highlight section in our report is bad stuff, negative stuff or subjective things, but also the very positive things too. And you get your perfect example of very philanthropic or on the board of a bunch of nonprofits and takes one of the things that detail is.
Speaker 2:It's one thing to say this person's on 10 nonprofit boards. It's another thing to say they're on 10 nonprofit boards and they're taking zero salary on all of those boards. They're zero salary on every single one of those. Everything is 100% donating their time. That speaks volume to who that person is right. They've made it, they're not taking money from that nonprofit and that's something that we can display right.
Speaker 2:Great family, travels a lot, gives money, takes care of people yeah, all sorts of positive things and by and large, most, most, are that right what we're looking for, the ones that aren't, because those are the ones that the clubs want to keep out, but by and large, most of those people are great and excellent members and people that I would love to go hang out with. I have I've I'll be honest, I've seen some where I've reviewed a report ago. I want to know this guy, like who is this person? Like they're so cool, like they're like they're in a helicopter saving people in South Africa and they're, you know, the next week they're skiing with their family and it's like what a cool family, what a cool guy.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know the race car stuff because I'm a car guy, so I see the guys with their cars want to go to that club and speak, just so I can meet that guy. So no, it's uh it's fancy seeing you here, like good thing, your vetting report looked good, uh, so yeah, no, no, really. Most of them are genuinely positive and we highlight that too. So the club gets a really good thumbs up feeling about those people and they're going to make that decision and they're they're easy decisions, most of them so do.
Speaker 1:Do you ever run into or like, how do handle a situation? Do you ever have a situation or a club? Or does it happen where, let's say, you start a club has X package and you start maybe it's like middle or so and you start digging and finding stuff and you're like, hey, there's more to this one. Do you just do it? Do you charge more? How does that work then? Then, if you're, if you're, if they get a certain package, and all of a sudden you start like peeling back the layers and you start opening up the boxes and you're like, ooh, there's a lot more boxes here than we thought. This is going to take some more time. Like, how does that work in your, in your world?
Speaker 2:It, um, we do it. So we just we. We finish it. We do the work product because it's subjective and the club gets to decide, you know, whether we think it's something that's like, you know they're automatically not going to let this person in. I can't say that that hasn't happened, but it would be a super rarity. We're going to finish.
Speaker 2:We charge a flat rate per applicant. So you know, some of the things we don't have. We don't have like a monthly fee, we don't have an annual fee and there's no commitment duration wise. So you use us when you use us. Our hope is it uses on every applicant. So it's a fair process and we, you know that you include us in your process, um, but you're getting that report one way or the other and there isn't an up charge for, holy moly, this one's really big um, it can happen when most of the time it will be, when someone is relatively prominent, that's that's.
Speaker 2:Those are the hardest ones because there's so much content out there. A lot of times we'll summarize the large quantity of content. So you know, let's say you had a Congress person, for example. They're going to be all over the news. They're, they're going to be someone that's spoken about, written about, and so we can summarize the large quantities of content and also put together an analysis of their political views and, if they're going to be a good fit for that club and, you know, lay out what their political views are or what their thought processes and what issues they're big on. So the club kind of knows that's what they're into and that's their thing.
Speaker 2:But yeah, prominent people are probably the most challenging because there's so much content that we have to go through and analyze. But no, no additional charges, that's on us and we handle that because we also know that the bulk of the ones that we do are going to be in that range of pretty normal individuals that are not going to take a lot of extra time or collection of information on. So no, that's on us and then we take care of those as well. So we tend to quote based on you know kind of the area and what the club's like and what types of people. We ask a lot of questions before we quote anything. We want to know a lot about the club. Who applies, you know, where are your, where are your applicants from? Are they local? Are they travel? Are they from the other place of the international. Are they from out of state? It gives us a good idea of what that population is going to be like for the most part when we start to go do the vetting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because if I remember I was thinking I don't know if it was for an episode Paul was talking or you know, just talking on the phone or something too. But just how you know, certain states and counties have different fees and procedures and some people you have to go in person to the place and fill out a form you have to go in person to the place and fill out a form.
Speaker 2:You have to send somebody there to go and do that, to get the information, to bring it back to you. Yeah, rural communities that are not as tech savvy and put some of these records online I mean we have subscriptions with every county and state that is possible to have to get records and to pull information relatively quickly because we're still doing it the old fashioned way, but the correct way, and going straight to the source for the data. So we don't use third-party data brokers that only get a little piece of a case. We're getting the entire thing so we can go directly to that court and get the entire case and review it so that we get all those details, all that context, all the things that have happened. A good example of that would be like a divorce case.
Speaker 2:Right In a docket sheet you would see a divorce case.
Speaker 2:It's just divorce, plaintiff, defendant and a bunch of calendar events and what happened. But when you start pulling those things especially if it's a lengthy case you start to get more information. You get the information about the abuse and the domestic problems and the fight over the kids and the fight over the assets and you look at the assets and are the assets legitimate and based on what they've told us on their application. Is that true and accurate? So you get more of that detail and context when you do it that way, the way that we do it to go and actually get the doc. This is the same thing with the police reports. Getting the full police report and the body cam footage is better than just getting an excerpt from the police that says DUI, arrest 2018, because that doesn't give you those details that you need to make a decision or at least evaluate who that person really is so because if they're, if they're that way drunk acting to a police officer, they're definitely the same way drunk at the club bar.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, or maybe, but, or like close to it, or you know, you know, give, give me another drink. You know who I am.
Speaker 2:I've been a member here, since they're the ones throwing the putters on the 18th green, you know. So I can't putt either, but I don't get mad about it.
Speaker 1:I don't think we've ever talked about on here, like what does something like this cost? And I realize just from the conversation that we've had and similar to like a lot of things there's different um, like you know, because, like, depending on the who, what, where, when, why is there's, there's different costs and pricing. But, like you know, a what does like a basic background, like. So if someone just were to just go get like a normal background check what, what you know, a normal, whatever verse, then then to like you you know what do your so like kind of like what does that cost? Versus like what do you like your ranges cost from? Like you know your entry level, your basic to what maybe most clubs get to? Um, to like the more like the higher end, like what does that, what does that range and scope look like? And how do you compare to like a normal like you know at at a bare bones, for your bare minimum, to like a really good, just public search people can get like what's that difference?
Speaker 2:like Huge difference. Yeah, so no, that's awesome A regular pre-employment background check. It could range anywhere from, you know, 75 to $200, right, depending on where you're at. And you had mentioned the jurisdictions matter a ton. New York. There's a premium on New York and California because the data is very difficult to get, it takes a long time and those counties and the state, in order for us to get that data, charge us an awful lot more than any other of the two states, california and New York. New York has a super high premium of getting data Shocking that that would be the most expensive state in the country. So that would be your typical pre-employment background check. But again, heavily regulated can only look at this much information. In California, I think it's five years after the conviction. You can't look at it and make a determination, so you're only getting a very small window and there's no detail, no context. That arrest for DUI in 2018, which now is already outside of that scope that you could even see in California, so you wouldn't even get it, but it would be arrest, dui, charge, date, guilty, that's it. That's all you're going to see.
Speaker 2:Our most basic package. Everything's customized. Let's start there. So we ask a ton of questions with clubs.
Speaker 2:The way that the process works in getting a club onboarded is we have about a 30 to 45 minute demo that we do. We go through an entire report and all of the various searches and all of the things that we can do, and then we start to ask questions of the club, really important questions. If we ask the club and say, would you not allow someone in your club, based on you know, go back to the DUI for a DUI five years ago and they said, well, we don't really care about DUIs because we're a local club and everyone walks here, for example, okay, then we're not even going to offer that search. There's no point. If you're not going to make a decision based on that search that we're providing, then there's no point in even having it and seeing it Right Now. That's a bad one, because most people would want to know that. But, um, so we start to build these things based on what they want.
Speaker 2:If character and reputation is the main thing and that's really our wheelhouse, because that's the most challenging part of what we do is finding those profiles, finding what they're really like in their personal life that comes into play in the package too, so we include that.
Speaker 2:And then we look at it and say, obviously we want to look at the criminal, we want to make sure they're not a sex offender, we want to make sure that the DUIs are there and the driving record is okay.
Speaker 2:And then maybe we want to start looking at the business aspect and what they actually do, their professional criteria and what they're claiming that they're one thing right, I'm this person and I've got these criteria and I'm on the board for this and I'm involved with this that those things are accurate. Right, that's a part of it too, to make sure that what they're telling you they are, they really are, and that they're not there for any other purpose, because we do catch I say catch, we find members or applicants that are there to garner influence. So clubs are really, really concerned about that, about people joining up because they're in sales and marketing, for example, or they've got a hot new startup and they need investors and their goal is to go to the club and find investors right and they're there for the wrong reasons. They're not there for the camaraderie, they're not there for the atmosphere.
Speaker 2:They're there to make connections.
Speaker 1:And you can kind of find that Like you can put those pieces together or at least formulate that story.
Speaker 2:We can form the basis to say you should look at this, because they don't match all the things they said they are. They don't have all the criteria that you would typically have in one of your members. The cost point may not be a good match. So there's a really easy one where it's like okay, this is a very costly club to join, right, you have a very high initiation fee. This person doesn't really match what we have typically seen.
Speaker 2:Maybe this is a corporate sponsorship, right? Maybe there's a corporation saying, hey, we want to get our sales guy in there and so we're going to pay for that membership, because the influence that he can gain from being here, she can gain from being there. So we have actually seen many, many times where that's happened, where it's like something's a little weird here. Or you find out that they've got a startup and they're looking for investors, and it's very public. I'm looking for investors, I've got the startup and it's good or bad, it doesn't matter, but they're there and from the minute they get there, they're going to be trying to make connections, having lunches.
Speaker 1:Passing out business cards.
Speaker 2:Passing out connections, having lunches, passing out business cards. We do see that a lot. We can formulate that and it actually becomes pretty obvious. We've had several examples of that, even in the last month or two, where it's like this is a strange one Doesn't golf, joining a golf club but not a golfer or not a golfer, and you can easily see that they're in sales and marketing and they're not a golfer and they've never been to a club before. Those are the types of things that we can look for and find. As far as pricing goes back to that, we build everything customized. So from a range standpoint, from a dollar standpoint which I hate to do, but I will give you some dollars inside information here, denny, on the podcast we can build these packages from as little as $300, $350, all the way up to $1,500, $2,000. It's a pretty big range.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I would say and I'll give you some, you know the middle range of that, that kind of $600 to $800, is really where most clubs end up fitting in, and some of it comes to initiation fee. Do they charge an application fee? And we're also creative with that too. If they're a club that doesn't have an application fee, we can actually be the application fee. They can actually pay us directly for that. We're flexible in that they can create an initiate or an application fee that includes our cost in there. So we can work with clubs to really recover that money, those dollars, to really make it worthwhile.
Speaker 2:And most people and they'll find too clubs will tell you is that when they have the application fees and they're notified that we're going to be doing this, which isn't a necessity you don't have to notify them, and I can speak to that more. They will also have some members that are like, yeah, they're probably going to find that out about me and maybe I don't want that out there, and then they bail on the process anyways. So from a cost standpoint, very, very customized. I would tell any club that's hearing this that's like oh man, we have a lower initiation fee and we don't have an application fee. But you're interested, I can work with you on that. I can really come up with something that works and makes sense and gives you a much better vetting product than you could ever get on the pre-employment side of things, because again it's heavily regulated we can always come up with a package for a club that's interested. We've never had to turn anyone down because it's just not. We can't make it work. We can make something work for you.
Speaker 1:And I'm sure you've probably had a. I've had a couple of clubs who you know hire you and they're like, ah, himman and Hahn, you know, hire you and they're like, oh, himman and Hahn. And then you come back with that one report and you're like here and they go, oh, then it's like, oh, thank goodness. It's like there we go. That's that like breath of fresh air, like, thank goodness, like it's like when they finally like see it and get it, you're like, oh, okay, worth it.
Speaker 2:You'll see on the site soon, as we're doing some upgrades, we'll have some great quotes from general managers and membership directors that we've gotten via email or over the phone. I was in Cincinnati for their chapter association earlier this year April or early May and I had a manager come up to me and I literally joke with her. I said can you please say that on video or something Like, can you put it in writing? It was like, oh my gosh, did we dodge a bullet on that? That's pretty much what the quote was and I was like hold on, hold on here, say it here, say it here. I text Paul right away and I said, oh, this is fantastic. Yeah, so we'll have some more of those quotes from real GMs and real membership directors that actually serve to some degree as references for us, because a lot of clubs will ask and say do you have references, do you have other GMs?
Speaker 2:And then a lot of people in the industry know each other. When we say, hey, we've worked with club A and you could talk to the membership director we work with over there, like, oh, I know her, that's great. And then you know she gets a phone call and says that right, dodged a bullet and it's like you know, listen, we did 30 for that club. 27 of them didn't even deserve a second look. They were thumbs up, good to go.
Speaker 2:Two of them needed a second look and were subjective and one was like, oh my gosh, don't let the person in there, even as a guest, right? So that's a pretty typical how the numbers work. I mean, we want there to be 27 of 30 that are thumbs up, no questions, great people, a handful of subjective ones where you know we don't make the decision, but some clubs might say yes, some clubs might say no, it's kind of in the middle, and then you're, you're going to have the ones where it's like, oh my gosh, stay away, right, burn the application, don't return the calls, whatever the case may be. So big range, big range in costs. But but again, we can accommodate just about everybody through some creativity and figuring out what works best, and a lot of it comes down to what their process is and where we can fit in that process are there certain clubs that go like hey for this one, can you give us the big package?
Speaker 1:like, are there ones where, like, they might be a little like hesitant, where they're like, hey, like this one, can we spend a little bit more money and time on this, just to make sure? Or probably at that point, if they're that nervous, they're probably not a good fit anyway?
Speaker 2:Generally not and, to be fair to the process, doing the same level of vetting on everybody is what you want to do now. The other thing that we have is we do have clubs with different layers of membership, right? So you have social member versus full golfing member, or maybe you have voting members. I have heard it. All all these things I've learned.
Speaker 2:I'm throwing terminology like I'm an expert, but these things I have heard and I've jotted down social member, what's that? And then I call somebody I know and go what's a social member? I just got asked. I didn't know, right. So they have different levels of membership, so they might have different levels of vetting based on what that member has access to. So if, if they're a full voting member, maybe they have package six all the way up here and then they use five on this one and they use package four on this one and they have designated for them and they just tell us hey, this is a four, this is a non-voting social member, or versus, this is someone that's going to be on the board, something like to that degree.
Speaker 2:And then we also have the spouses that we do too. So something like to that degree. And then we also have the spouses that we do too. So some of the packages, depending on what you know the club wants to do, can also include the spouse and or family, if they have that person too.
Speaker 1:Because hugely important, huge, huge. The one episode I was chatting with, with, with, with, with Paul I think there was, you know it was like like everybody was fine but the son who just graduated college, who's also going to be using the club, had like a bunch of like sexual assault things from like a different state. But like from the from the outside all looks good, but when you start digging a little bit and it's like, ok, hey, do you want this kid around the pool, like with all, like that sort of exactly what that sort of stuff and different levels, yeah, and this and this to me, like it's not what it's what, not what it is.
Speaker 1:So different levels, yeah, and this and this to me, like, like it's not what it's what, not what it costs, it's what's going to save you. And it reminds me of I'm blanking on the episode, but I think it was Aaron James. He's in Asheville and it's like the same but different. But we were talking about cause. We were talking about, like health and wellness and how they spend a lot of time, money and resources on hiring good people to come in and train the members. He goes and we hire good, trained people, because if a bad trainer comes in and trains a member wrong and they hurt their back, now we're not just out, you know, like okay, now we have to go find a new person, but now, like that member's out, they're not going to be coming to the club spending money. They're not going to, you know, and it's like it goes down that rabbit hole. So it's like the same thing. It's like what is this going to cost you?
Speaker 2:yeah, um, yeah, 100 same different, but yeah and it's hard. It's zero sum too, because you can't always evaluate how much a bad member or a problem member can keep other people away. But you hear the stories. I I mean from that standpoint. I hear people say all the time like if that guy's going to be around, I'm not playing in that outing or I'm not going to the restaurant because he's always down there, so those are the types of things too.
Speaker 2:I mean the ones that are sitting at the bar from nine in the morning till five in the afternoon or that just are there to cause problems all day and they keep other people out of the bar. They keep other people out of the bar. They keep other people out of the lounges. So, yeah, those are the things we're looking for. We're very aware of those things and we learn every day.
Speaker 2:I mean some of the stuff that the stories that I've heard about bad members get my head spinning. I'm like, okay, how could we figure that out? How could we get to that trait, that personality or that piece of detail, that or the data that would get us to allowing the club to know that ahead of time? Right, every time I hear a story about a you know member getting kicked out or removed or having an issue or getting arrested, whatever it's like, how could I have prevented that through what we do in vetting?
Speaker 2:Because you know, paul says this all the time. I hate to use his phrase because he's gonna give me crap for it, but um, behavior predicts future behavior. I'll rephrase it. I think that sounds better than when he says it, but it is true. I mean, what we see in the past tends to repeat itself. So when you have five DUIs in the last five years, that's something that comes up. So yeah, we have heard all the stories and we're constantly learning and looking for new ways to add little things to our searches and how we're operating.
Speaker 1:Dan, as always, thank you, and Paul and the whole gang for coming on. Thanks for being show partners. I appreciate you guys. If people want to get a sample report that they can learn, go to membervettingcom. Dan, thank you so much for everything.
Speaker 2:I appreciate it, Denny. I'm happy to be here and I'm looking forward to seeing you next month.
Speaker 1:Can't wait. Management in Motion privateclubradiocom slash management in motion. Hope you all enjoyed that episode. I know I did. If you would like to learn more, get one of those sample reports or just have a conversation. Head on over to membervettingcom. That is membervettingcom. And hey, if you want to meet Dan and learn more about Kennis more thoroughly, you can come to management in motion, my leadership summit happening next month at Monticello motor club, to learn more. Head on over to private club radiocom slash management in motion to learn more or sign up. But that's this episode. Thank you so much, Dan. Thank you, Kenis, member vetting. Until next time, I'm your host, Danny Corby. Catch all on the flippity flip.
